# High School P. E. Requirements **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2000, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203 "2000-08-05T02:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/41 "2000-08-08T14:54:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tygre \* > \*\* > > Getting out of P.E. was damned near impossible. I only managed to get out of it for a quarter by taking driver’s ed and for a semester by taking Health. > –tygre \*\* I did get out of all that running one year by taking hunter’s safety one quarter. It was a blast doing target practice in the rifle range that was in the basement of the school. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/42 "2000-08-08T17:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **Here’s the two big things I’ve learned from the SDMB. #1. All jocks are assholes.** No, they are not, but **culture** , **teachers** , **parents** , and the **media** have all helped create a predisposition towards assholicness in jocks. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **With the exception of the wrestling team of course.** That’s the spirit!!! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > **Nobody ever had a good experience in gym.** Well, there are a couple conclusions you can draw from this: 1. SDMB posters in general are whining assholes. 2. Gym as currently taught has serious problems. Hmmmm…I’ll pick item “2” for the center square. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/43 "2000-08-08T21:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > **Here’s the two big things I’ve learned from the SDMB. #1. All jocks are assholes.** > > No, they are not, but **culture** , **teachers** , **parents** , and the **media** have all helped create a predisposition towards assholicness in jocks. \*\* What culture, which teachers, and what media? At least in my school the jocks were held to a higher standard of behavior then the rest of the student body. If you got a unsatisfactory report for behavior on report card day you were in trouble with the coaches. But hell maybe I’m strange. By the time I was in high school I didn’t see anyone making fun of the smart kids. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > **With the exception of the wrestling team of course.** > > That’s the spirit!!! \*\* Well I gotta look out for my guys. The football guys would occasionally tease us about wrestling. Until they came in off season to try their hand at it. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > **Nobody ever had a good experience in gym.** > > Well, there are a couple conclusions you can draw from this: > > 1. SDMB posters in general are whining assholes. > 2. Gym as currently taught has serious problems. > > Hmmmm…I’ll pick item “2” for the center square. \*\* 🙂 Personally I think there more then enough of #1 to go around in general. As for #2 I don’t know. For all I know most of the S Dopers were those pale, over or underweight kids, with no coordination or muscle mass. Even if it isn’t true I’d hardly take anything said in the SD as a general consensus. Marc ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/44 "2000-08-09T03:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > For all I know most of the S Dopers were those pale, over or underweight kids, with no coordination or muscle mass Yeah, and so what is your point, exactly? Please explain this. How is the physical inclination of some kids relevant to school? Do “pale, over or underweight kids” deserve to be miserable in school? Do they deserve to have a school PE system designed to make them more miserable, rather than help them become less pale, under or over weight? In my case, I was pale, fat, and out of shape. And I had just _one quarter_ of PE that actually helped me lose weight, and get in better shape. _One quarter_ where PE was effective in what I assume is it’s objective - to help those pale, over or under weight kids get more fit. The rest of the time was a total waste. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/45 "2000-08-09T04:02:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > For all I know most of the S Dopers were those pale, over or underweight kids, with no coordination or muscle mass > > Yeah, and so what is your point, exactly? Please explain this. \*\* Point being maybe those were about the only kids who had a miserable time in PE. Or they were most likely to be the ones miserable in PE. > [@](#): > > \*\* > How is the physical inclination of some kids relevant to school? Do “pale, over or underweight kids” deserve to be miserable in school? \*\* Nah, but then stupid kids don’t deserve to be miserable either. Some of them are though. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Do they deserve to have a school PE system designed to make them more miserable, rather than help them become less pale, under or over weight? \*\* I doubt any system was specifically designed to make them more miserable. > [@](#): > > \*\* > In my case, I was pale, fat, and out of shape. And I had just _one quarter_ of PE that actually helped me lose weight, and get in better shape. _One quarter_ where PE was effective in what I assume is it’s objective - to help those pale, over or under weight kids get more fit. The rest of the time was a total waste. \*\* That’s school for ya. At least you learned what worked and could duplicate it at home. Marc ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/46 "2000-08-09T04:22:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Nah, but then stupid kids don’t deserve to be miserable either. Some of them are though. So, once again, your point? So that makes it OK? That since the stupid kids were miserable, it’s OK that the out of shape kids be miserable too? Why not have a school system where both the “stupid” and the “out of shape” kids were not miserable? Oh, no, we couldn’t have that. God Forbid. Just look the other way, that’s _much_ better. I’m sure in some places minority kids and gay kids were also made miserable in school as well. So…? Îs this acceptable? > [@](#): > > I doubt any system was specifically designed to make them more miserable. It almost seems that way in some cases, from some of the stories we’ve heard here. But more than likely it was apathy, and ignoring the misery of certain types of students. Year after year. > [@](#): > > That’s school for ya. At least you learned what worked and could duplicate it at home. Well, since I learned what worked already, why did I still have to undergo the rest of the PE semesters - the ones where I was constantly made miserable? What was the point of that? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/47 "2000-08-09T04:27:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > For all I know most of the S Dopers were those pale, over or underweight kids, with no coordination or muscle mass > > > > Yeah, and so what is your point, exactly? Please explain this. > > \*\* > > Point being maybe those were about the only kids who had a miserable time in PE. Or they were most likely to be the ones miserable in PE.\*\* So, let’s clarify this a bit before we start - you are assuming that most people who complain about the way gym is taught do so because they had a miserable time (being “pale, over or underweight”). And not because they are smart people who can recognize a system gone wrong? I for one tend to assume that most people here are pretty sharp - at least sharper than me. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > How is the physical inclination of some kids relevant to school? Do “pale, over or underweight kids” deserve to be miserable in school? > > \*\* > > Nah, but then stupid kids don’t deserve to be miserable either. Some of them are though.\*\* This may not be intended to be inflammatory, but it kinda sounds like it. Perhaps you would choose to phrase it differently? > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > Do they deserve to have a school PE system designed to make them more miserable, rather than help them become less pale, under or over weight? > > \*\* > > I doubt any system was specifically designed to make them more miserable.\*\* Or you could have read **yosemitebabe** ’s post like I did, which was: that in the way in which it **is** designed, the effect is to make them more miserable. Regards, Una ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/48 "2000-08-09T04:41:27Z")
P.E. should be a requirement. But there is more to PE than running around. If your class is an organized sport such as volleyball or touch football, volunteer to be umpire or referee. You can watch the game, learn the rules better than every one else in the class, and post records and such. It does require some physical exertion, only because you have to be aware at all times, and it can be a bitch having to watch four games being played at once. I officiated touch football for a term in my HS for credit, and did some softball umpiring for a semester in college. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/49 "2000-08-09T04:47:11Z")
Personally, it seems to me that you ought to be able to choose between a few sports, and then actually play those sports consistently for a good while, so that you really learn it. Of course this would work better in a larger school where you have more people, but still. If I could have played football, lacrosse, and tennis all through PE, i would have been happy. Dure I like other sports, but I’d rather play one a lot than do the silly “jump around between sports” thing. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/50 "2000-08-09T04:50:09Z")
> [@](#): > > If your class is an organized sport such as volleyball or touch football, volunteer to be umpire or referee. This might be a good solution some of the time. Providing the coach/teacher agrees to let you be referee, providing that no one else wants to be referee. It could work, but is a little iffy as a “game plan” to avoid misery and torment through the entire High School experience. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/51 "2000-08-09T06:05:56Z")
MGibson, we are talking about one particular emanation of a system which sends intelligent, unathletic, and nonconformist teenagers literally to their deaths on a regular basis. Ignoring the problem has ceased to be a viable option, whether or not you choose to believe the life stories that the people on this board have shared with you. ---
**Author:** ![Mauve\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@Mauve\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauve_Dog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/52 "2000-08-09T07:19:47Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* \*\* > [@](#): > > And then I can take classes at LMC (the local JC) for the rest of the credits. > \*\* Say, **pepper** …that wouldn’t be Los Medanos College, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/53 "2000-08-09T18:30:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > So, once again, your point? So that makes it OK? That since the stupid kids were miserable, it’s OK that the out of shape kids be miserable too? \*\* Just part of life I guess. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Well, since I learned what worked already, why did I still have to undergo the rest of the PE semesters - the ones where I was constantly made miserable? What was the point of that? \*\* That’s standardized education for you. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/54 "2000-08-09T18:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*MGibson, we are talking about one particular emanation of a system which sends intelligent, unathletic, and nonconformist teenagers literally to their deaths on a regular basis. Ignoring the problem has ceased to be a viable option, whether or not you choose to believe the life stories that the people on this board have shared with you. \*\* A very tiny minority who probably have a lot of problems outside the school as well. And I really doubt PE in specific is what’s sending teenagers to their death beds on a regular basis. I do believe the stories I’m hearing I just don’t believe they represent the PE experience for most people. Marc ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/55 "2000-08-09T19:03:34Z")
> [@](#): > > So, once again, your point? So that makes it OK? That since the stupid kids were miserable, it’s OK that the out of shape kids be miserable too? > > * * * > > _MGibson replied:_ > > Just part of life I guess. That’s all you have to say? Just throw up your hands and say “Just part of life?” Well, it’s also “part of life” that minority kids and gay kids are made miserable in school. And that stupid kids are made miserable in school. Oh well. That’s part of life. Whoop-dee-doo. Not your problem. _Shrug_ Let’s just all shrug and look the other way. Never mind that the _reason_ that these certain kids are miserable is because of a definite (and avoidable) way of teaching some things in the school system. Never mind that things _could_ be easily be better if certain policies were adapted a little, and made more flexible. But, oh, wait, never mind. People like _you_ were apparently not miserable, so, no problem, right? So if a school system designs things to make _other_ kids miserable, so what? As long as _you_ had a great time. Those out-of-shape, stupid, minority and gay kids just plain had it coming? Surely you don’t think that? > [@](#): > > ## Well, since I learned what worked already, why did I still have to undergo the rest of the PE semesters - the ones where I was constantly made miserable? What was the point of that? > > _MGibson replied:_ > > That’s standardized education for you. > > Marc Oh well. Whoope-dee-doo. _shrug_ That’s shitty standardized education for you. Make kids miserable, don’t help them, but whoop-dee-doo. Let’s throw up our hands. Nothing can be done. Nope. Just keep on making kids miserable year after year. If it doesn’t work, don’t fix it. Well, isn’t that just brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/56 "2000-08-09T19:38:00Z")
I say keep PE, but definitely improve it. My WAG is that the newer crop of PE teachers is somewhat more evolved than the troglodyte heavy clan of decades ago. Am I wrong? 25 years ago it seemed the younger teachers were more on the ball than the older. And from what I hear from my middle schoo-aged daughter, they are doing some good things like fitness lab. I can see at least a few valuable attributes to be taught under the rubric of P.E. -nutrition and health education -healthy physical fitness training -knowledge of how to participate in organized sports for enjoyment I can also imagine exceptions being made for folk with legitimate health excuses, or perhaps the requirements could be adjusted (i.e., the kid with asthma can lift instead of run, or research papers on health or history of sports.) I could also imagine a sliding scale, where there is a basic high school curriculum, that is adjusted for individuals with particular interests. Say the standard is for all students in the general curriculum to take 4 years of PE. But for students concentrating on science and math, perhaps only 2-3 years are required. Maybe same for those concentrating in fine arts, or industrial tech. Sounds like a lousy situation, pepperlandgirl. Reminds me of halfway through my last semester of college when I learned I needed 3 more hours in my major to graduate. Oops! Let us know how it turns out. (And your homework assignment is to write 25 times “calculus”) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/57 "2000-08-09T19:51:59Z")
> [@](#): > > A very tiny minority who probably have a lot of problems outside the school as well. In what way does this render it acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/58 "2000-08-09T20:15:34Z")
**matt** replied to **Marc:** “A very tiny minority who probably have a lot of problems outside the school as well.” \*In what way does this render it acceptable? \* No, I think I see **Marc** ’s point, **matt** : namely, if the high-school PE system is a failure only for a very tiny minority who are constitutionally maladapted to just about any type of group sport/exercise regimen, it’s hardly worth changing an otherwise successful system just on their say-so. So the conclusion’s not such a problem; it’s his premises that I think are full of holes. I’d be interested in knowing his answers to these questions: - What’s the experience that you think the vast majority of high school students have with PE? - If most people had a better experience than that of most of the posters here, do you think that it was because there was no harassment or poor sportsmanship in their classes, or because it was directed at the “tiny minority” of klutzes and losers and so they didn’t mind it? - Don’t you think PE would be better for **everyone** if there was a strong emphasis on good sportsmanship, classes were thoughtfully designed and well taught, and picking on klutzes/losers wasn’t allowed? - Most of the posters here fell into the “smart kids” category in high school, that is, they were very well adapted to academic-type activities. If you say that their complaining about PE class just reflects their poor adaptation to gym-type activities, how do you explain their many sharp criticisms of many academic classes as well? ---
**Author:** ![egkelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/db5fbb/32.png) [@egkelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egkelly)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/59 "2000-08-09T20:17:34Z")
My recollections of PE class: mostly boring (except for the rope climbs), but one clear memory I have: in 8th grade we had this really pathetic has-been…he was always reminding of us that he had “qualified” for the “alternate” US Olympic basketball team (in 1956 )…big deal! ---
**Author:** ![TampaFlyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@TampaFlyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TampaFlyer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203/60 "2000-08-09T21:00:42Z")
\> Well, says the Vice-Principal, you will have to drop Calculas. What?!? I can’t drop Calculas! Apparently he made you drop spelling as well. \ When I was in school, we had to take gym only in 7th grade; after that it was optional. In general, the athletic kids liked it & continued taking it, & everybody else avoided it, due to the shower thing & not wanting to look like a doofus. The class we had to take made no attempt to teach anything or to encourage the inactive kids to become more active. It scared me away from sports for many years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-p-e-requirements/28203.md?page=4)