# High School Student: Any College Advice? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627 "2013-07-16T01:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/21 "2013-07-16T16:07:05Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > The first two years of college, pretty much everywhere, are exactly the same courses…the General Education courses - science, math, English, humanities. Thus, it really doesn’t matter if you go to a community college or Harvard for those first two years - which, by the way, those first two years are when a whole bunch of students, especially those living on campus in dorms, flunk out due to lack of study, too much partying, lack of motivation. This sort of bolloxology appears quite frequently in College threads - only considering one side of the desk. It’s the other side, the student side, that is actually more important. Hence why two courses at Harvard and a community college that are ‘the same’ are not in fact, the same. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/22 "2013-07-16T16:16:29Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > The first two years of college, pretty much everywhere, are exactly the same courses…the General Education courses - science, math, English, humanities. Thus, it really doesn’t matter if you go to a community college or Harvard for those first two years - which, by the way, those first two years are when a whole bunch of students, especially those living on campus in dorms, flunk out due to lack of study, too much partying, lack of motivation. > > It is the last two years of college that most people hit their major field of study. > > So, you might want to go anywhere local for the first two years, and then transfer. > … ^^^THIS! Even though you now say you want to go into consulting you may change your mind as you are exposed to a variety of courses in your first two years. No point in racking up huge debt to go to a bigger name out-of-state university for those first two years. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/23 "2013-07-16T16:46:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If you are serious about business, you will need an MBA sooner rather than later, and the best route is to go to a solid, affordable state school for undergrad and the best business school you can get into for the MBA. It makes little sense to go to a 2nd tier school, especially if it is expensive. Either go to a top-5 school, or the best public university you can get into. There is little that is useful in the in-between, unless you have some special need for a specific kind of college. > > Undergrad business degrees are a dime a dozen. I believe it’s the top major right now, and it doesn’t really say a lot about you or what you can do. The best thing you can do for yourself is work outside of school as an undergrad, do as many prestigious internships as you can, and generally build that work experience as aggressively as you can. That is what will eventually get you hired. A business undergrad fulfills the “this person needs a degree of some type” requirement like any degree (though it’s seen as somewhat vocational) but it’s not going to get you beyond that in and of itself. I’ll have to humbly insert a caveat. Business degrees are a dime a dozen but if you graduate from a place like UVa, Michigan, Duke, Stanford, an Ivy, etc. with a business/finance/commerce degree you get work in Banking. You can keep working banking without an MBA and make a buttload of money. An MBA certainly broadens your horizons and I know a lot of guys who are doing MBA’s now 5-8 years out of school but I also know a lot who either are sticking with banking, scaling down to a boutique firm, or moved on to consulting or started their own business. So yeah, if you “just” get a business degree, it’ll be rough sledding out there for you. However, if you get into a top undergrad program, it’s not a bad road. Be warned that most of these majors are selective. It’s not like you just get into the school and declare a major. There are GPA requirements and you have to apply so even if you do get into a top school, it’s no guarantee that you’ll get into the top program for that top school. This applies for business, certain engineering disciplines, some public policy programs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/24 "2013-07-16T16:52:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You mentioned the business school at Michigan. Now, it does offer a bachelor’s degree in business administration, but if you’re interested in consulting, you’ll almost certainly need an MBA or other advanced degree. You can go anywhere for the undergrad degree, and as long as you have the grades and a good GMAT score, you can get into a good business school for the MBA. Also, don’t assume that the University of Florida will be cheaper than schools elsewhere. The top private schools can offer very generous financial aid packages. So apply in-state and out-of-state, see which schools accept you and then look at the out-of-pocket cost. > > And not to discourage you but you mentioned “a strong GPA, course load, standardized test scores, and community leadership roles”. When applying for college you will be competing against literally thousands of other high school students with similar or better qualifications than yours. > > Finally, as a high school student, why do you think you want to go into “consulting”? Do you even know what that means? I’m under the impression (I might be wrong) that consulting firms usually look into Ivys and top management programs. Michigan’s Ross BBA program is recognized as one of the best in the country. Again, I believe an MBA is needed if you want upward mobility into a partner or similar position. I’m middle class. At the moment, I’m out of reach of most aid. But, I will always be looking for opportunities! I’m also aware of how competitive colleges are now. I feel confident in my credentials. I recently began work on starting a youth program with the March of Dimes. I really think the effort, leadership, and commitment I put into this role has the chance to really make me stand out. I want to consult to begin to pay off student loans earlier on in life, challenge myself, and create professional relationships to use once I have an exit plan in place. I don not want to consult for extremely long. The lifestyle and workload would obviously be an immense drain. But I believe it could be the springboard for many opportunities in life. Thank you for the advice. I genuinely appreciate everybody giving me a little bit of their opinion on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/25 "2013-07-16T16:54:02Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I’ll have to humbly insert a caveat. Business degrees are a dime a dozen but if you graduate from a place like UVa, Michigan, Duke, Stanford, an Ivy, etc. with a business/finance/commerce degree you get work in Banking. > > You can keep working banking without an MBA and make a buttload of money. An MBA certainly broadens your horizons and I know a lot of guys who are doing MBA’s now 5-8 years out of school but I also know a lot who either are sticking with banking, scaling down to a boutique firm, or moved on to consulting or started their own business. > > So yeah, if you “just” get a business degree, it’ll be rough sledding out there for you. However, if you get into a top undergrad program, it’s not a bad road. Be warned that most of these majors are selective. It’s not like you just get into the school and declare a major. There are GPA requirements and you have to apply so even if you do get into a top school, it’s no guarantee that you’ll get into the top program for that top school. This applies for business, certain engineering disciplines, some public policy programs, etc. I completely understand. Entrance into Ross generally requires a year in one of Michigan’s other colleges. I’m prepared for that risk. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/26 "2013-07-16T16:55:37Z")
Do you qualify for bright futures? Do you have any other scholarships or grants lined up? ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/27 "2013-07-16T16:55:51Z")
I really can’t reply to every one of you, but I’ve really gained some important advice. Please, keep it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/28 "2013-07-16T16:57:55Z")
> [@Connor](#): > > I’m under the impression (I might be wrong) that consulting firms usually look into Ivys and top management programs. Michigan’s Ross BBA program is recognized as one of the best in the country. Again, I believe an MBA is needed if you want upward mobility into a partner or similar position. I’m middle class. At the moment, I’m out of reach of most aid. But, I will always be looking for opportunities! I don’t know how you can say that you’re out of reach of most aid unless you’ve already applied to college, filled out the FAFSA and received results back. So I recommend that you do that. Even if you’re not qualified for need-based aid, many schools have merit-based aid as well. And as I said, the elite schools have a lot of money to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/29 "2013-07-16T16:59:51Z")
First, congrats on a very well written post. You’ll do well. I’ve put two kids through very good colleges. And I hire lots of people. First, don’t worry too much about generic rankings. What is more important is how the college is considered in your field. Second, ask the college to tell you which companies recruit there. Most large companies have a select list of colleges which they recruit from. If companies in your field recruit at a school, it is a good sign that they consider the school to do a good job. Third, good state schools are just as good as good private schools, and cheaper. But they are bigger, and they are hurting for money these days. My older daughter went to the University of Chicago (private) and my younger went to the University of Maryland. Both had great experiences, but the older one was able to take weirder courses that interested her, and was able to connect with some famous professors. You can do that in a state school also, but it is harder. Fourth, visit. I’ve heard rumors that visiting a school signals to them that you are very interested, and they want to increase the percentage of offers they give that get accepted. Also, you’ll never know about a place until you’ve been there. My youngest daughter was also interested in the University of Delaware - until she found that the kids she spoke to all wanted to transfer to Maryland. You also will never know what strikes you as important. I chose MIT over the cheaper and closer Cooper Union because there were computers in every corridor (not that common in 1969.) Turns out this was an excellent metric for me. Do not listen to people who say all colleges are the same, even in the first two years. First, there is no guarantee that you will be able to transfer. Second, it is not true that you take all the same classes the first two years. If you know what you want to do, and you seem to, you can get a jump. There are also electives. If you have some drive, you can connect to professors. Believe it or not they like smart undergrads who are willing to do stuff for free or almost free. I think living on campus, or near campus, is very valuable. My friends from my dorm 40 years ago and I still exchange pictures and stuff. It is a good step towards independence. I’m really glad I did that and didn’t go to a school in New York and kept living at home. Bottom line - pick the best school you can afford and get into. And by best I mean best for you, not best in a US News survey. Only you can define that. Lower prestige colleges will never tell you this, but there is a halo effect from going to a good college, not to mention networking opportunities. Go to MIT or Harvard and people will begin by assuming you are smart. I’ve had doors open for me because I went to MIT. It is even more important if you are interested in business. You worked hard in high school, why throw it away going to a school not as good as you can handle? ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/30 "2013-07-16T17:20:31Z")
Dewey, In regards to financial aid, you’re right. I am definitely applying to everything that could save me some money. But like you said, I think merit based scholarships/aid will be my best bet. Voyager, thank you. I think the visits will end up being the deciding factor. University of Chicago used to be a dream of mine! What did your daughter major in? ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/31 "2013-07-16T17:22:35Z")
On a sort of unrelated note, I will be fluent (as fluent as you can be w/o constantly being abroad) in German in a few years. I love the language and the country. This will also help me with college (I have a few German accolades). Does anybody work with German? How could this language help me in the professional world? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/32 "2013-07-16T18:20:49Z")
Sorry, I should have read the OP more carefully. I was under the impression that you wanted to do banking exclusively with the details of your major. If you’re open to the nebulous world of consulting, then by no means should you restrict yourself to a business major, or an ivy (public or otherwise). In fact, I have a very good friend who eschewed UVa and lower tiered Ivy’s to attend UF and majored in Decision and Information Sciences, got a masters in Information Systems and Operations Management and is working consulting in NY with that degree. UF is a good school, a fun school, and for you - an affordable school. However, Voyager’s point is equally valid, if not moreso in that you’ve worked your butt off in HS, why not enjoy the fruits of your labor in the most prestigious and engaging environment within budget? ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/33 "2013-07-16T18:33:26Z")
If you’re going to bother applying to Columbia, go full out and apply to all 8 Ivies. Columbia, as one of the lesser Ivies, doesn’t have as much cash to hand out for undergrad education as Yale, Harvard & Princeton, but you could get a decent financial package from any of the Ivies, so don’t limit yourself! Sincerely, Motorgirl, Cornell '92 ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/34 "2013-07-16T19:03:22Z")
Take your Bright Future free state school tuition money and run. Why take on debt when there are decent schools you can go to for the price of room and board? ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/35 "2013-07-16T20:31:10Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > If you’re going to bother applying to Columbia, go full out and apply to all 8 Ivies. > Columbia, as one of the lesser Ivies, doesn’t have as much cash to hand out for undergrad education as Yale, Harvard & Princeton, but you could get a decent financial package from any of the Ivies, so don’t limit yourself! > > Sincerely, Motorgirl, Cornell '92 I’ve heard that those in charge of admissions at Ivies often know each other and aren’t too fond of students “spamming” out applications. It makes them seem desperate. This could very well be completely untrue. Do you know anything about this? ---
**Author:** ![Connor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Connor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Connor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/36 "2013-07-16T20:33:21Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Sorry, I should have read the OP more carefully. I was under the impression that you wanted to do banking exclusively with the details of your major. If you’re open to the nebulous world of consulting, then by no means should you restrict yourself to a business major, or an ivy (public or otherwise). > > In fact, I have a very good friend who eschewed UVa and lower tiered Ivy’s to attend UF and majored in Decision and Information Sciences, got a masters in Information Systems and Operations Management and is working consulting in NY with that degree. > > UF is a good school, a fun school, and for you - an affordable school. However, Voyager’s point is equally valid, if not moreso in that you’ve worked your butt off in HS, why not enjoy the fruits of your labor in the most prestigious and engaging environment within budget? I say Business in a broad sense. I’m not completely sure what type of business or even if I want to pursue that as my major. What are your thoughts on Economics or History? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/37 "2013-07-16T20:36:25Z")
> [@Connor](#): > > I’ve heard that those in charge of admissions at Ivies often know each other and aren’t too fond of students “spamming” out applications. It makes them seem desperate. > > This could very well be completely untrue. Do you know anything about this? Based on my limited experience, it’s not a problem to apply to multiple schools, aside from the fact that you’ll have to pay multiple application fees. The CommonApp actually makes it much easier than I had it when I applied to college in the mid 1980s. I’ve never heard that schools shared the names of the applicants among themselves. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/38 "2013-07-16T20:45:53Z")
Speaking as a high school teacher, my advice would be to skip college entirely and learn how to become a heavy equipment operator. 20 years down the road you’ll be pulling in over $100K (inflation-adjusted), have zero college debt to have been paid off, and you will always be employed, and employed well. 20 year olds are making $60k/year as equipment operators, and that’s riding around in an air-conditioned cab rather than digging with a shovel in the hot sun. College is a racket. If you don’t have a calling that requires it, skip it and go for the green. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/39 "2013-07-16T20:47:05Z")
> [@Connor](#): > > I say Business in a broad sense. I’m not completely sure what type of business or even if I want to pursue that as my major. What are your thoughts on Economics or History? Check the want ads for Economists and Historians. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627/40 "2013-07-16T20:50:07Z")
Undergraduate degrees in economics or history are good if you want to attend business or law school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-any-college-advice/663627.md?page=3)