# High School student by day stripper by night? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860 "2017-04-20T17:06:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/21 "2017-04-20T22:47:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Because, I assume, there is or at least there should be a limit on a public school’s power to control legal behavior of students outside of the school. This would be especially true of adults, like the hypothetical in the OP. In my view the school should butt out of even illegal behavior off school property, but I’m not yet in charge. FYI, behavior contracts typically deal with illegal behaviors and are heavily skewed towards involvement in sports and other extra-curricular activities. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/22 "2017-04-20T22:52:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I assume, then, that you are aware of the terms of the behavior contract, if any, in the school district where you live. I also assume you sit on the school board or have run for a seat on it. Those things would indicate some genuine level of involvement in the process and commitment to improving the system. Idle bitching about how things would be if you were in charge, not so much. This shouldn’t be a matter for corrupt local school boards. This is a constitutional rights issue. Either a school, which does not follow due process per nationally recognized court procedures and which de facto has the power to turn a student into an indigent, can arbitrarily make up rules or it cannot. If the school can arbitrarily restrict student’s conduct with no limitations, it can do all sorts of wrongful acts. It could expel students for reading certain books. It could decide to expel students because it heard a rumor a kid was talking back to their parents. And in this particular thread, the assumption is the school hasn’t even bothered to write “no stripping” into the school rules that students and their parents have no choice but to “agree” to, it’s just flexibly interpreting some clause buried deep in the school rules\*. This brings to mind an expulsion case where the students went duck hunting, with their legally authorized firearms they were permitted by state law to possess, and then left the guns in the trucks, parked _off campus_. The school administration expelled them anyway. (they won on appeal but it shouldn’t have come to that) I think school administrations should be liable for treble or 10x damages if they do shit like this. \*Maybe the clause says “the student shall not commit acts of moral turpitude” and the school just decides that since the administrators think stripping is immoral, the clause applies. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/23 "2017-04-20T23:00:53Z")
Yeah, what Scumpup is describing is unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/24 "2017-04-20T23:11:24Z")
A while back, I was involved in a community activity with a high school teacher who talked a lot about his second period class, which was composed of what could best be described as at-risk students. He told us about one boy in particular who had decided to start working out, because he was going to soon be 18, at which time he could work as a male stripper. This man, who I am 99% certain is gay himself, pointed out to the boy that he would mostly be performing for a gay clientele, something the boy did not know and didn’t really seem to comprehend either. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/25 "2017-04-20T23:19:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yeah, what Scumpup is describing is unconstitutional. Which part of The Constitution do you think is being violated? A typical behavior contract centers around such ideas as a conviction for underage drinking results in being kicked off any sports teams and/or being barred from the prom and/or being suspended. Participation in extra-curriculars requires the student and hir parents to sign the contract. So, work with that as you bring your Constitutional scholarship to bear. No behavior contract of which I am aware has a “morals clause,” as I already stated; so we need not worry our little heads over that. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/26 "2017-04-20T23:26:02Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I think school administrations should be liable for treble or 10x damages if they do shit like this. I expect the taxpayers would differ from you on that. Are you on the school board? Do you, at least, attend their public meetings? Are you a member of the PTA, even? What are you doing besides making “If I were in charge” pronouncements? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/27 "2017-04-20T23:35:48Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Which part of The Constitution do you think is being violated? A typical behavior contract centers around such ideas as a conviction for underage drinking results in being kicked off any sports teams and/or being barred from the prom and/or being suspended. Participation in extra-curriculars requires the student and hir parents to sign the contract. So, work with that as you bring your Constitutional scholarship to bear. No behavior contract of which I am aware has a “morals clause,” as I already stated; so we need not worry our little heads over that. Then why the flying fuck did you bring it up in the first place? What possible relevance could it have to the hypothetical posed in the first post? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/28 "2017-04-20T23:39:02Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Then why the flying fuck did you bring it up in the first place? What possible relevance could it have to the hypothetical posed in the first post? I listed a hypothetical behavior contract with such a clause as a possible way the student could be suspended for stripping. I’m somewhat sorry that that seems to have given you piles. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/29 "2017-04-20T23:42:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I expect the taxpayers would differ from you on that. Are you on the school board? Do you, at least, attend their public meetings? Are you a member of the PTA, even? What are you doing besides making “If I were in charge” pronouncements? None of that is at the level I am talking about. These rules would be passed at the Federal level. Their intention would be to deter casual violation’s of a student’s civil rights by school boards and other entities who are making decisions without clear justification or the procedural protections of a court. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/30 "2017-04-20T23:46:03Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > None of that is at the level I am talking about. These rules would be passed at the Federal level. Education is handled at the state and local level in the US. The feds control some money dealing primarily with lunches and special education. How do you propose to involve them in the behavior contracts? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/31 "2017-04-20T23:49:53Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I listed a hypothetical behavior contract with such a clause as a possible way the student could be suspended for stripping. But such a hypothetical contract would be–by your own description of these, since they don’t contain “morals” clauses and also are only interested in policing _illegal_ behavior–outside the bounds of what is normal, and quite frankly would also be beyond the bounds of the legitimate scope of school regulation of students’ non-school time and activities. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/32 "2017-04-20T23:49:53Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > None of that is at the level I am talking about. These rules would be passed at the Federal level. Their intention would be to deter casual violation’s of a student’s civil rights by school boards and other entities who are making decisions without clear justification or the procedural protections of a court. Which civil rights do behavior contracts violate? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/33 "2017-04-20T23:52:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > She gave one of their dad’s a lap dance? She gave one of their mom’s a lap dance? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/34 "2017-04-20T23:55:27Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > But such a hypothetical contract would be–by your own description of these, since they don’t contain “morals” clauses and also are only interested in policing _illegal_ behavior–outside the bounds of what is normal, and quite frankly would also be beyond the bounds of the legitimate scope of school regulation of students’ non-school time and activities. I gave a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. Why this is such a source of irritation to you, I do not know. I do know that my interaction with you in this thread is over. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/35 "2017-04-20T23:56:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Education is handled at the state and local level in the US. The feds control some money dealing primarily with lunches and special education. How do you propose to involve them in the behavior contracts? The same way they were involved in voiding school-imposed restrictions on non-disruptive political speech (wearing black armbands in protest of the Vietnam War) _in_ the classroom. In other words, by court orders reinstating students or rescinding penalties and injunctions against further enforcement. The specific facts of _Tinker_ itself don’t apply here, of course, but the point is that the same mechanism by which the _Tinker_ decision was made and enforced could also be used here. Like, the Supreme Court decisions that upheld these sorts of behavioral contracts for drug use and drug testing (_Board of Education vs. Earls_ and _Vernonia School District_) explicitly justify it on the school’s interest in prohibiting _illegal_ activities, which do not apply in the case of an 18-year-old student working as a stripper. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/36 "2017-04-21T00:00:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I gave a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question. Except such a contract would almost certainly be found to be void, and so no, the school _still_ wouldn’t be able to expel the student. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/37 "2017-04-21T00:44:14Z")
Aren’t high school students usually required to get permission from the school to work while in school? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/38 "2017-04-21T00:46:44Z")
**kayaker** , hearsay would probably require some investigating or confirming before acting but remember, _this is not a proceeding before a criminal court_. It’s a school disciplinary issue. > [@SamuelA](#): > > None of that is at the level I am talking about. These rules would be passed at the Federal level. Their intention would be to deter casual violation’s of a student’s civil rights by school boards and other entities who are making decisions without clear justification or the procedural protections of a court. Lotsa luck with that these days, getting the Fed level involved in protecting student civil rights in general through legislating special damages in civil litigation. The recent trend is away from Federal control and FWIW a lot of voters in the majorities of late would likely be quite fine with the notion of _“hell, yeah, teach the little heathens to Respect Authority and behave!”_ (OK, so they’d be all for letting them pack loaded guns and hold Christian worship in the classrooms, but still…) _AAanyway…_ back to the OP: As posted, the hypothetical contemplates a public school. This throws in a set of questions when it comes to a US jurisdiction, namely: does the particular state mandate that schooling is compulsory _until completion of a certain grade level_ (and if so which), or until the pupil arrives at a certain _ **age** _ (and if so what age), or up to whichever happens first? Because it is one thing how you treat \*minors \*who are _legally compelled to attend_, and another how you treat legal adults who are there because they _want to_ graduate. While an \*employee \*of the school district may have a morals clause in their contract, that is an entirely different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/39 "2017-04-21T00:59:35Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Aren’t high school students usually required to get permission from the school to work while in school? No. Not that I’ve ever heard. None of their business ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860/40 "2017-04-21T01:12:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I assume, then, that you are aware of the terms of the behavior contract, if any, in the school district where you live. I also assume you sit on the school board or have run for a seat on it. Those things would indicate some genuine level of involvement in the process and commitment to improving the system. Idle bitching about how things would be if you were in charge, not so much. Hey, I’ll have you know I’ve repeatedly volunteered to check local strip clubs for high school students but all the school boards in my area are refusing to honor my reimbursement requests. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-by-day-stripper-by-night/784860.md?page=3)