# High School Student "Free Speech" Case Before SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931 "2021-04-28T15:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/41 "2021-04-28T17:46:53Z")
Asking you to defend a position you’ve taken isn’t “begging the question.” ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/42 "2021-04-28T17:52:45Z")
It does not matter if she agreed to an honor code or contract to join cheer. The question is whether the specific rules in the code are allowed. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/43 "2021-04-28T17:53:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Does that apply to off-campus speech? If the student repeatedly says while walking home and in her home and other students’ homes that the teacher should go suck a donkey’s dick, is that disciplinable? (Yes, I’m going to keep using it. 😉 ) All her friends in that case know that she has zero respect of the teacher, but hasn’t said it anywhere near the school. At the risk of taking a contrary position, I would say no. There is something qualitatively different from saying something in front of a friend who later betrays your trust than blasting a pic on social media. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/44 "2021-04-28T17:55:01Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Any teacher stupid enough to do this should be fired immediately. Why? Maybe the teacher is trying to understand why Bob is upset with him. Why is talking to a student forbidden? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/45 "2021-04-28T17:57:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > All her friends in that case know that she has zero respect of the teacher, but hasn’t said it anywhere near the school. We shouldn’t (and can’t) force our kids to respect teachers. We can (and should) force them to treat them with respect _at school_. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/46 "2021-04-28T18:00:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why? Maybe the teacher is trying to understand why Bob is upset with him. Why is talking to a student forbidden? Never become a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/47 "2021-04-28T18:03:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why? Maybe the teacher is trying to understand why Bob is upset with him. Why is talking to a student forbidden? Then the teacher could say, “Bob, I hear that you’re upset with me for something. Let’s talk about it after class.” The way you phrased it was a transparent attempt to trap Bob into repeating something he’d said out of class, where it should be protected speech, in a classroom, where it would not be. Teachers who try to entrap students into breaking rules so they can punish them should not be teachers. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/48 "2021-04-28T18:04:31Z")
Does cheerleading really count as voluntary? In my high school there was a PE requirement. That requirement could be satisfied with PE, a sports team, cheerleading, drill team, band, and maybe more. It wasn’t just a club that happened to meet at the school. That is the same as English. There was an English requirement which could be satisfied through AP English, regular English, special education English, ESL, etc. If joining cheerleading is a choice, and so it is acceptable to have extra restrictions on out of school conduct, then same can apply to AP English. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/49 "2021-04-28T18:08:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So, if the teacher asks, “Bob, I saw on Facebook that you wanted me to lick a donkey’s balls. Do you agree with that?” should the student get counsel? Is the question forbidden? If Bob says “yes” is that actionable? I’d say the teacher would be the one in the wrong for dragging out of school drama into the classroom in that case and should probably be disciplined. It would be one thing for the teacher and/or admin to call the student in for a talk, a whole other thing to bring it up in class in front of other students. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/50 "2021-04-28T18:09:59Z")
Going to school is mandatory; being a member of a team or club is voluntary. I see no problem with teams having behavior requirements much more stringent than the school in general. A cheerleader here got booted from the team for posting a picture of herself drinking the morning of a late start at school. Did the student break a team policy? I didn’t see in the attached article that she broke a specific policy. Plus, it’s an assholish thing for the coach to do. She was obviously disappointed in not making the Varsity team; she was blowing off steam. A good coach would have gone to her and tried to work with her on her attitude - told her why she didn’t make Varsity, what she could improve for next year, etc. Bottom line - yes, it is legal and constitutional for the participant of a voluntary activity associated with a school to be kicked out of that activity because of actions outside of school property. I don’t know if rules for this activity were spelled out for this (did she sign something saying “no dissing the team”?), and I believe that this specific action did not rise to the level. I do believe that it was within the coach’s power, and that the family should be paying the school districts legal bills for dragging this crap on for this long. Oh, wait. The school district lost, and the board brought this up to the Supreme Court. OK, then the individuals on the board can repay the school district for the legal costs rather than the taxpayers of the community. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/51 "2021-04-28T18:12:36Z")
The school does not have sufficient reason to consider regulation of this speech. > [@the linked article](#): > > .specifically, the app Snapchat, where she posted a picture of herself and a friend with their middle fingers raised, along with the caption “Fuck school fuck softball fuck cheer fuck everything.” She and a friend expressed their opinion. The school administrators should not act like a butt-hurt children when their students express negative opinions of them. The students were not bullying other students, not advocating illegal or destructive activities. It is free speech on their own time and none of the school’s business. The students have an excuse for acting like children, they are children. What’s the school’s excuse? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/52 "2021-04-28T18:12:54Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > If joining cheerleading is a choice, and so it is acceptable to have extra restrictions on out of school conduct, then same can apply to AP English. It may vary by school, but when/where I went to school, no, cheerleading (band, drill team, etc.) did NOT meet the phys-ed requirement; these were all extracurricular activities, categorically similar to being a member of the FFA or the debate squad or JROTC, and hence not at all similar to AP English. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/53 "2021-04-28T18:17:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > She and a friend expressed their opinion. The school administrators should not act like a butt-hurt children when their students express negative opinions of them. The students were not bullying other students, not advocating illegal or destructive activities. It is free speech on their own time and none of the school’s business. The students have an excuse for acting like children, they are children. What’s the school’s excuse? It is not simply an expression of a negative opinion. It is a middle finger with fuck the team as a caption. Maybe a couple of girls busted their asses just to make the JV team. Should they have to share a locker room with a girl that has a disdain for the team? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/54 "2021-04-28T18:21:04Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is not simply an expression of a negative opinion. It is a middle finger with fuck the team as a caption. Maybe a couple of girls busted their asses just to make the JV team. Should they have to share a locker room with a girl that has a disdain for the team? Are there other situations where you think someone’s hurt feelings should trump free speech rights? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/55 "2021-04-28T18:26:46Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > The fact she posted on Snapchat as opposed to Instagram or Twitter or some other social media seems to indicate she was counting on her post disappearing before she’d have to face the consequences for it. If she had said that out loud to one of her friends, off campus, and where only that friend could hear it, but that friend recorded it and sent it to the coach, would you feel the same? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/56 "2021-04-28T18:27:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Maybe a couple of girls busted their asses just to make the JV team. Should they have to share a locker room with a girl that has a disdain for the team? Yes. They have to share the school with plenty of people who hold and express all sorts of opinions they don’t like. This controversy is over a matter no more important than any other bit of nonsense expressed by any of those teenagers at that school, and unfortunately the rantings of their teachers, administrators, and coaches. The girl said ‘fuck’ like that is some big fucking deal. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/57 "2021-04-28T18:31:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, fuck the school that didn’t teach me that 🏆 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/58 "2021-04-28T18:31:25Z")
I’ll admit I haven’t read all the posts but I’m confused by something in the article. It says that Levy didn’t make the cheerleading team. She posted a negative comment about it on the internet. And as punishment for doing that, she was suspended from the cheerleading team. Huh? How can they suspend her from something she didn’t belong to? > The case now before the Supreme Court began in 2017, when 14-year-old Brandi Levy didn’t make her high school’s varsity cheerleading team. On a Saturday, when she was not at school, Levy took to social media – specifically, the app Snapchat, where she posted a picture of herself and a friend with their middle fingers raised, along with the caption “Fuck school fuck softball fuck cheer fuck everything.” > > Another cheerleader took a screenshot of Levy’s snap and showed it to a cheerleading coach. After the cheerleading coaches determined that Levy’s snap violated team and school rules, Levy was suspended from the cheerleading team for a year. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/59 "2021-04-28T18:33:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It says that Levy didn’t make the cheerleading team. She posted a negative comment about it on the internet. And as punishment for doing that, she was suspended from the cheerleading team. She was on the regular team. She tried out for the Varsity team, got rejected, and posted the message. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/60 "2021-04-28T18:33:47Z")
Okay. Got it. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931.md?page=4)