# High School Student "Free Speech" Case Before SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931 "2021-04-28T15:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/101 "2021-04-28T22:02:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The girl in question didn’t do it in front of her parents or teachers, either. She did it on a forum where now the whole nation can see it. The whole world can see it! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/102 "2021-04-28T22:03:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > but it can tell you not to tell its representatives to fuck off. Can it? I don’t believe it can, actually. But I’ll warn everyone with a “Fuck Biden” shirt/flag that the government is coming for them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/103 "2021-04-28T22:05:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Can it? I don’t believe it can, actually. Sure. Can I work for the local group against domestic violence if I post here that these women have it coming? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/104 "2021-04-28T22:08:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Can it? I don’t believe it can, actually. > > Sure. Can I work for the local group against domestic violence if I post here that these women have it coming? . Ummmm… That’s not what you said. You said that the government > [@UltraVires](#): > > can tell you not to tell its representatives to fuck off. Which it most certainly cannot do. Now, if you are an employee of the government, can the government tell you how to behave, within reason? Yep, and if the coach (an employee of the government) said “Fuck Cheer”, I’d agree, the coach should be fired. But this girl is not a government employee, is she? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/105 "2021-04-28T22:08:50Z")
She did it on a forum visible only to her and a select handful of her friends. It was one of these “friends” who passed the photo on to the school. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/106 "2021-04-28T22:11:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But this girl is not a government employee, is she? Your rule would give a minor child greater rights than a government employee. Is that where you want to go? > [@Miller](#): > > She did it on a forum visible only to her and a select handful of her friends. See above. How much is a social media post like a chat with your buddy at a bar? I think not much. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/107 "2021-04-28T22:11:57Z")
The high school doesn’t have any such power outside of school in my opinion. First of all public schools have been considered extensions of the state and for the most part public universities and schools have a high standard to clear to bar constitutional behavior. Secondly, everyone knows that there is no way in hell speech codes would ever be implemented fairly and uniformly. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/108 "2021-04-28T22:11:59Z")
I don’t have much sympathy for the girl or her parents, but the principle of free speech without governmental consequences should be upheld. Sometimes you have to let the Nazis march in Skokie. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/109 "2021-04-28T22:12:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Your rule would give a minor child greater rights than a government employee. Is that where you want to go? Yes, obviously; civilians should face fewer government restrictions than government employees. That’s kind of how free countries work. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/110 "2021-04-28T22:13:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > See above. “See above” where? > [@UltraVires](#): > > How much is a social media post like a chat with your buddy at a bar? I think not much. What’s the significant and relevant legal difference between a private conversation between four people in person, and a private conversation between four people online? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/111 "2021-04-28T22:14:27Z")
This is a 14 year old under the direction and supervision of the school. They can tell her she can’t go to the restroom. They can tell her to stay in THAT room. They can order her around. This isn’t a free citizen like you or me. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/112 "2021-04-28T22:18:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The high school doesn’t have any such power outside of school in my opinion. This wasn’t a rant about Biden or the Palestinians or some rock band; it was specifically about her relationship with a particular school activity. If she’d been talking about any of the former topics, I agree the school had no business getting involved, but she wasn’t. If this was really the only complaint the cheer coach had about her, then I probably would not have made the same decision as they did, but I don’t see why the coach of an optional extracurricular activity should have to tolerate bad conduct directly related to that same optional extracurricular activity merely because it happened outside of coach’s direct purview. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/113 "2021-04-28T22:18:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is a 14 year old under the direction and supervision of the school. They can tell her she can’t go to the restroom. They can tell her to stay in THAT room. They can order her around. This isn’t a free citizen like you or me. Not when she’s not in school, they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/114 "2021-04-28T22:19:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is a 14 year old under the direction and supervision of the school. They can tell her she can’t go to the restroom. They can tell her to stay in THAT room. They can order her around. This isn’t a free citizen like you or me Where such restrictions are necessary for the proper and orderly functioning of the school as a place of learning, those restrictions are reasonable and appropriate. Where such restrictions are in place only to shield the school from criticism or suppress speech that school officials dislike, they are not. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/115 "2021-04-28T22:24:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Where such restrictions are in place only to shield the school from criticism or suppress speech that school officials dislike, they are not. I think that’s my point. The school wouldn’t have suspended her if she just said “Coach, your decision was bad. I should have made varsity!” The vulgar and immature WAY she disapproved of the school was the cause of it. Let’s say this…not to be confrontational. But had she taken a picture of her ass, and said the coach could kiss it, still free speech? How far? Her vagina? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/116 "2021-04-28T22:26:58Z")
I don’t care what she said. If it’s off campus or not at an official school event then the school has no role or responsibility. It’s strictly a parenting issue outside of the few instances where speech is legitimately threatening enough to involve law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/117 "2021-04-28T22:27:04Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I think that’s my point. The school wouldn’t have suspended her if she just said “Coach, your decision was bad. I should have made varsity!” The vulgar and immature WAY she disapproved of the school was the cause of it. In other words, these restrictions > [@Babale](#): > > are in place only to shield the school from criticism or suppress speech that school officials dislike Which is not appropriate. > [@](#): > > Let’s say this…not to be confrontational. But had she taken a picture of her ass, and said the coach could kiss it, still free speech? How far? Her vagina? Considering her age, that would involve the creation and distribution of child pornography, a serious crime, so yes, that would be a different scenario. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/118 "2021-04-28T22:27:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not when she’s not in school, they can’t. In Colorado, a high school athlete may practice or compete with an outside (non-school) team only with the permission of their school principal; violation may result in being banned from all interscholastic sports activities (see [this PDF](https://www.nfhs.org/media/1019784/wksp-15-hogan-derrera.pdf) for more about the policy). Do you have the same constitutional concerns? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/119 "2021-04-28T22:29:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Considering her age, that would involve the creation and distribution of child pornography, a serious crime, so yes, that would be a different scenario. Then that law would be unconstitutional as she was engaging in free speech, no? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931/120 "2021-04-28T22:31:40Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > In Colorado, a high school athlete may practice or compete with an outside (non-school) team only with the permission of their school principal; violation may result in being banned from all interscholastic sports activities (see [this PDF](https://www.nfhs.org/media/1019784/wksp-15-hogan-derrera.pdf) for more about the policy). Do you have the same constitutional concerns? From your link: > [@](#): > >  Q1: When may a principal prohibit a student from competing on an outside > team in the same sport during that sports season? >  A1: The principal may deny permission only when the student fails to meet > the requirements of (a) and (b) above. And A and B are defined as: > [@](#): > > (a) the student’s class attendance is not compromised; and >  (b) the student is in good academic standing under the school’s activities policy > applicable to all students. So, if the principal arbitrarily decided to ban a student from club sports because he or she didn’t like their speech, that would be a problem, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-student-free-speech-case-before-scotus/940931.md?page=7)