# High school students' 9/11 sweatshirts: offensive? harmless? newsworthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918 "2010-01-06T16:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/61 "2010-01-06T21:01:20Z")
**Hello Again** ,[this](http://www.zazzle.com/world_trade_center_symbol_postage-172628746801895210) represenation bears none of the characteristic features itemized in your previous posts. Can you see the reference to the WTC? BTW, **RNATB** does this mean you have officially sided with the “there’s no reference crowd”? Just trying to keep track. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/62 "2010-01-06T21:03:22Z")
I mean, I’m not even offended by their use of it. I don’t think any kind of commotion should really have been made. But to deny that the reference isn’t obvious? That’s surreal. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/63 "2010-01-06T21:04:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Apparently an eleven with some windows could only possibly ever refer to _one_ thing, though. Go figure. in all honesty, what do you think this “eleven with some windows” represents? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/64 "2010-01-06T21:05:33Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I mean, I’m not even offended by their use of it. I don’t think any kind of commotion should really have been made. But to deny that the reference isn’t obvious? That’s surreal. That’s where I find myself as well. I think the reference was in poor taste, though it doesn’t anger or upset me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/65 "2010-01-06T21:06:34Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > in all honesty, what do you think this “eleven with some windows” represents? An eleven. Possibly also some school buildings. Maybe the twin towers. However, I have still yet to see any evidence that the kids meant to depict the twin towers. I presume that is because it doesn’t exist. > [@](#): > > BTW, RNATB does this mean you have officially sided with the “there’s no reference crowd”? Just trying to keep track. No - I have officially sided with the “I don’t know what they were going for” crowd, and I have already admitted that it could be a 9/11 reference. If you find a quote from any of the students or parents that suggests they were going for 9/11, I’ll accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/66 "2010-01-06T21:10:04Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > **Hello Again** ,[this](http://www.zazzle.com/world_trade_center_symbol_postage-172628746801895210) represenation bears none of the characteristic features itemized in your previous posts. Can you see the reference to the WTC? Ys, it captures the WTC TT’s essential verticality – very similar to the “Towers of Light” display. The Twin Towers had a very simple, pure shape, and that simple shape is all that is needed to evoke the buildings. The 11 is NOT a pure vertical – which it easily could have been by choosing a sans serif font! – and this one of the reasons it looks NOTHING like the WTC TT. However even if it were not a pure vertical if it had ANY feature that directly suggested the WTC TT, like the vertically aligned windows, the girdles, or even the single antennae, I might be persuaded that it was intended. BTW, the image you linked to also skillfully shows that WTC TT were not in fact side by side (they were catty corner to each other). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/67 "2010-01-06T21:11:09Z")
I’m another who thinks this could only be offensive to someone looking to be offended. Why not interpret it as “You might have brought these down, but you are not going to bring us Arab-Americans down”?" (Saying that, I agree with the comments that it was a crap design.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/68 "2010-01-06T21:13:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > An eleven. Possibly also some school buildings. Maybe the twin towers. However, I have still yet to see any evidence that the kids meant to depict the twin towers. I presume that is because it doesn’t exist. All I can find in the various news stories talking about this is that the kids are saying they “didn’t mean anything by it.” Not that they “didn’t mean to bring up 9/11.” I realize that’s not actually evidence, but there’s nothing hard. It appears to be a foregone conclusion by everyone involved that the reference to 9/11 was intentional, the only question is what the kids meant by it. But I don’t think you can only go by the creator’s word when the picture is pretty darn clear. If that was the case, none of the pictures and dolls sold at Republican gatherings caricaturing Obama as a monkey or African tribesman were ever meant to be racist. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/69 "2010-01-06T21:14:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > An eleven. Possibly also some school buildings. Maybe the twin towers. However, I have still yet to see any evidence that the kids meant to depict the twin towers. I presume that is because it doesn’t exist. Wait. You really think that the reason you haven’t seen the evidence is because it doesn’t exist? Not, “the whole story has yet to come out” or “details are being withheld” but “I haven’t seen it, therefore it’s not there”? Are you the clearing house for information pertaining to fluff pieces in the upper-midwest? Maybe I was wrong in my characterization of disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/70 "2010-01-06T21:18:07Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Ys, it captures the WTC TT’s essential verticality – very similar to the “Towers of Light” display. The Twin Towers had a very simple, pure shape, and that simple shape is all that is needed to evoke the buildings. > > The 11 is NOT a pure vertical – which it easily could have been by choosing a sans serif font! – and this one of the reasons it looks NOTHING like the WTC TT. However even if it were not a pure vertical if it had ANY feature that directly suggested the WTC TT, like the vertically aligned windows, the girdles, or even the single antennae, I might be persuaded that it was intended. > > BTW, the image you linked to also skillfully shows that WTC TT were not in fact side by side (they were catty corner to each other). You’re critiquing the execution of the design. I’m sorry, but if you don’t see the reference, I can’t help you. I believe, given the context, it’s clear to most, even if it is unintentional. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/71 "2010-01-06T21:19:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Possibly also some school buildings. Do you think the school buildings have serifs? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/72 "2010-01-06T21:21:26Z")
To deny, or at least pretend the reference to 9/11 isn’t there and isn’t intentional is completely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/73 "2010-01-06T21:22:18Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Do you think the school buildings have serifs? The school building may or may not have a stepped-up design. However one thing for sure is that the TT didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/74 "2010-01-06T21:27:42Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The school building may or may not have a stepped-up design. However one thing for sure is that the TT didn’t. The WTC wasn’t a two dimensional screen print either. You are one literal minded little fella. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/75 "2010-01-06T21:31:25Z")
First of all, the numbers look nothing like the towers whatsoever and the bird doesn’t even resemble a plane. Second, how can you say “too soon” when my license plate looks like [this](http://www.jeepmud.com/images/readrig/VA_911.jpg)? The use of 9/11 imagery to depict a fighting spirit was OK as of September 12th, 2001, and it’s only gotten more OK since then. I can’t even figure out what the offensive part is supposed to be. Even assuming they _did_ intent to reference 9/11, so what? What offensive message are you thinking they’re trying to spread? The only one I can think of is that American won’t be able to stop this graduating Arab-American class from blowing up some buildings. I can’t imagine that _that_ was the intended take-away. So all that’s left are some positive, admirable messages like “Nothing can stop this graduating class from working toward a brighter America.” Where’s the offense, again? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/76 "2010-01-06T21:33:15Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > The WTC wasn’t a two dimensional screen print either. You are one literal minded little fella. No, it’s just that of the roughly 10-15 unique ways they could have brought the WTC to mind, they somehow did not choose any of them. Look, if you draw a stick figure, it has two arm sticks, two leg sticks, a torso stick, and a circle head, maybe with hair. We all immediately recognize that as a human form, even if it lacks a little detail. If you draw an L or a W it just doesn’t look like a person, even if you put a head on top. The elements are not there, arranged in the right way, to evoke the human form. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/77 "2010-01-06T21:34:12Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > No, it’s just that of the roughly 10-15 unique ways they could have brought the WTC to mind, they somehow did not choose any of them. That just means they were bad at it. It was clearly done on the cheap using stock jersey numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/78 "2010-01-06T21:34:36Z")
I guess an L with a circle on top would be a reasonable stick representation of Captain Morgan. > [@](#): > > That just means they were bad at it. It was clearly done on the cheap using stock jersey numbers. They make stock jersey numbers with windows in them now? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/79 "2010-01-06T21:38:58Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > First of all, the numbers look nothing like the towers whatsoever and the bird doesn’t even resemble a plane. I thought this was a whoosh at first. This sentence is just hilarious to me. “The bird doesn’t even rexemble a plane.” Kills me. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918/80 "2010-01-06T21:40:34Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > Whether I find them offensive is irrelevant. > If the kids are juniors, they were 6 or 7 when the Trade Center buildings went down. To them, it’s just so much history, not a current event. > > To me, the Kennedy assassination is still a current event. Except, to many Arabs, 9-11 IS a current event no matter what their age because it has sparked so much animosity and hatred toward Arab-Americans. This is an event that shapes Arab ethnic identity to this day, ergo, it matters. My immediate interpretation of the t-shirt is that it’s a reference to the way 9-11 brought the image of Arab-Americans down, kind of a commentary on what it’s like to live with that prejudice and refusing to accept society’s judgment. I agree it was a poorly designed concept what with having the bird be a plane and all. Not offensive, just kind of missed the mark. ETA: Looking at the design and reading the article, I don’t even think this was meant as anything deep or resonant. Just some naive kids being naive kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-students-9-11-sweatshirts-offensive-harmless-newsworthy/523918.md?page=5)