# High school valedictorian gives speech criticizing school, now can't get diploma. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420 "2004-06-27T18:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/21 "2004-06-28T13:07:48Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > The school isn’t going to learn anything, I suspect. When you’re going through administrators that fast, nobody’s around long enough (or has enough peace and quiet) to “learn” much of anything, administrator-wise. This is a school district where some manner of war is going on between the administration and the school board, or something of that sort – either that, or it’s such an insane neighborhood that administrators bail as soon as they realize they’re being expected to work miracles. And the brass will probably just convince itself it’s just a matter of controlling “troublemakers” and their solution will be that henceforth all students who are to speak at graduation will be handpicked and have their speeches pre-vetted and have to sign a written commitment that they’ll stick to the approved speech of face sanctions. Easier than fixing the root problem. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/22 "2004-06-28T16:29:25Z")
[Devil’s Advocate] Is there a transcript of this speech anywhere so we could at least see the merits of this rogue address instead of speculating that its altruistic nature should be warranted and acceptable? I’d hate to think that she would have simplistic, non-constructive slams against her alma mater such as “this place sucked because we had bad teachers that didn’t give a shit”. I guess I’d like to see it before passing judgment on the school since it was the school that had rewritten that speech for her to perform and she played the stunt of reading the unaltered version. [/Devil’s Advocate] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/23 "2004-06-28T16:38:12Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > [Devil’s Advocate] > > Is there a transcript of this speech anywhere so we could at least see the merits of this rogue address instead of speculating that its altruistic nature should be warranted and acceptable? I’d hate to think that she would have simplistic, non-constructive slams against her alma mater such as “this place sucked because we had bad teachers that didn’t give a shit”. I guess I’d like to see it before passing judgment on the school since it was the school that had rewritten that speech for her to perform and she played the stunt of reading the unaltered version. > > [/Devil’s Advocate] Actually, the merits of the address are completely beside the point. In fact, if her whole speech consisted of nothing more than “This school sucks; thankyou, and good night” it still would not justify witholding the diploma. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/24 "2004-06-28T16:57:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Actually, the merits of the address are completely beside the point. In fact, if her whole speech consisted of nothing more than “This school sucks; thankyou, and good night” it still would not justify witholding the diploma. Oh, I totally agree with you **mhendo**. The devil’s advocate of me would still like to see the transcript of the speech to see how offensive/inappropriate it was. The frosted side of me loves the sweet taste of victory that she was able to get her opinions and frustrations out there in a forum where she was finally heard. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/25 "2004-06-28T18:30:03Z")
In contrast to Wang-Ka’s “lessons” that the kid should have learned, I think she may have learned the best lesson ever: the biggest difference between Joe Schmoe who keeps his mouth shut and the born leader who tries to change things is the person’s willingness not to take the BS that others are dishing out. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/26 "2004-06-28T18:36:57Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > The kids **already** been accepted to Smith. She’s going there whether she’s gets that sheepskin or not. > > . Can her admission to Smith, or her scholarship funds, be jeopardized by what she’s done? I mean, since being valedictorian is supposed to mean, among other things, that she’s the best student in the school, can anyone actually hold her back on the technicality? Is someone at Smith going to say, “Sorry, you’re not a HS graduate, you can’t enroll here,” or will they give her a pass? ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/27 "2004-06-28T19:00:00Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > The school couldn’t do anything to her but withhold the sheepskin. Incidentally, never once in my life have I needed to provide proof of my graduation from either high school or college, whether working for a restaurant or a computer company. I’ve never even needed to request a transcript. My high school said I needed to pay for a lost textbook. I knew for certain I had returned the textbook, and refused to pay for it. It might have been “accidentally on purpose” lost by a petty teacher who disliked me, or maybe it was truly accidentally lost. Either way, I had fufilled my part of the bargain by returning the book in good condition-- that they lost it wasn’t my fault. They said they would keep my diploma until I returned the book or paid for it. I said “fine, you do that then.” I went off to my chosen college with nary a problem in that regard. Later they “found” the book and I was able to pick up my diploma. I have no idea where it is anymore, and I’ve never once needed it. I don’t think Miss Schley is going to have any problems if she doesn’t get the actual diploma. ---
**Author:** ![Lockseer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a5b964/32.png) [@Lockseer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lockseer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/28 "2004-06-28T19:55:36Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I mean, since being valedictorian is supposed to mean, among other things, that she’s the best student in the school, can anyone actually hold her back on the technicality? Is someone at Smith going to say, “Sorry, you’re not a HS graduate, you can’t enroll here,” or will they give her a pass? Again, the graduation exercises and diploma are a formality. She was allowed to graduate, but not allowed to pick up the piece of paper that she can keep in a cardboard box for years to come. It’s a symbol of having completed and graduated college, ntohing more. You don’t need to show “proof of diploma” to go to college…and her grades and transcript are not subject to any rescinding. So…yes…if they had continued to withhold her diploma, she would still be a high school graduate. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/29 "2004-06-28T20:25:26Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Can her admission to Smith, or her scholarship funds, be jeopardized by what she’s done? I mean, since being valedictorian is supposed to mean, among other things, that she’s the best student in the school, can anyone actually hold her back on the technicality? Is someone at Smith going to say, “Sorry, you’re not a HS graduate, you can’t enroll here,” or will they give her a pass? By way of personal anecdote, I never turned in my cap and gown following my high school graduation. Graduates who did not turn them in were not allowed to pick up their diploma. I went on to college anyway. For all I know, it’s still there in the office, waiting for me to pick it up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/30 "2004-06-28T22:58:02Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > That’s an important point. If you’re not a college graduate a lot of places require proof of graduation from high schoolin the form of a diploma or GED. > > If she sticks to her guns she’d better hope that she doesn’t fail out of college, otherwise she’s going to have to do some fence mending down the road. Naw, since she can always get a transcript. Like others have posted, it’s not the piece of paper in the cool writing that makes you a graduate, it’s the transcript. I don’t think I ever got a diploma from my technical college, but I can always prove I graduated from the program by showing a transcript. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/31 "2004-06-28T23:26:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And the brass will probably just convince itself it’s just a matter of controlling “troublemakers” and their solution will be that henceforth all students who are to speak at graduation will be handpicked and have their speeches pre-vetted and have to sign a written commitment that they’ll stick to the approved speech of face sanctions. Easier than fixing the root problem. Nicely put. > [@Ravenman](#): > > In contrast to Wang-Ka’s “lessons” that the kid should have learned, I think she may have learned the best lesson ever: the biggest difference between Joe Schmoe who keeps his mouth shut and the born leader who tries to change things is the person’s willingness not to take the BS that others are dishing out. It might surprise you, **Ravenman** , to know that I _agree_ with you. But no one knows for sure which way they’re going to go until the clout hits the mouth, bud. Moments of truth are always faced alone, and moments like this is when you and everyone around you finds out what you’re made of. A schoolyard bully is a bad thing, sure. Certainly, the righteous person will go and set the jerk straight… by force if necessary, sure. But if you’re going to go and kick the bully in the nuts, you had best be ready for the haymaker that’s certain to follow. Righteousness is all well and good, but it’s an uncertain weapon at best. Better to depend on a little iron in the spine, a good right hand… and, perhaps, the numbers to the local newspapers. I’m glad she won. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/32 "2004-06-29T00:05:42Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Huh? I read the article. Where did I say anything that implied the student was anything but female? Oops! I was the one who misread! I thought your constant references to “he” in your first post referred to the student! My bad! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/33 "2004-06-29T00:25:37Z")
So now not only is she going to college, but the taxpayers are going to give her a couple decades worth of pocket money to get her started (what with the lawsuit these imbeciles have brought down on them and all). Good work school administrators! Way to remind everyone in the district, especially the teens, that the kids are smarter than the teachers. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/34 "2004-06-29T20:56:37Z")
According to CNN, [the student now has her diploma,](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/06/29/diploma.denied.ap/index.html) but not an apology. I love the mayor’s comment: Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Monday called the withholding of the diploma “a bonehead thing to do by somebody.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/35 "2004-06-30T02:00:54Z")
Although I did graduate and earn my degree, I never got my college diploma. Despite the fact that I paid for it. Twice. I really hate the administration at my old college. Buncha fuckin’ incompetents. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/36 "2004-06-30T03:03:41Z")
> [@lainaf](#): > > “a bonehead thing to do by somebody.” Man, I love it when you talk dirty! It gets me so HOT! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/37 "2004-06-30T13:27:25Z")
Hmmm…she may be taking things a little too far [now](http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/24032.htm)–politicians are circling. And I too wish I had a copy of that speech. “Accents we can’t understand” was one of her complaints. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420/38 "2004-06-30T14:51:11Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Hmmm…she may be taking things a little too far [now](http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/24032.htm)–politicians are circling. > > And I too wish I had a copy of that speech. “Accents we can’t understand” was one of her complaints. > > :dubious: Yeah, as quickly as i supported her stand, my cup of sympathy is starting to run a little dry. She got her publicity, she’s getting her diploma, she made the school look like a bunch of idiots and gained lots of public support for her intelligence and principles; now she should just let it go. If she’s just going to milk this for every bit of publicity that she can, she’ll find out pretty soon that most people have even less time for egomaniacal self-promoters than they do for officious bureaucrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-school-valedictorian-gives-speech-criticizing-school-now-cant-get-diploma/252420.md?page=1)