# High Speed Police Chases **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532 "2007-07-12T19:35:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zeppo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/2acd7d/32.png) [@Zeppo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeppo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/81 "2007-07-14T19:00:20Z")
Solution: Recruit cops with brains, as opposed to the adrenalin crazed cowboys currently masquerading as law enforcement officers. Really, I remember when cops were smart, and often over 30. A little life experience goes a long way when faced with the decision between using good judgment (and your radio) vs just nailing the gas. It’s high time we stopped using “Cops” as an example for new officers, and went back to hiring adults. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/82 "2007-07-14T19:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=Zeppo] Solution: Recruit cops with brains, as opposed to the adrenalin crazed cowboys currently masquerading as law enforcement officers. Really, I remember when cops were smart, and often over 30. A little life experience goes a long way when faced with the decision between using good judgment (and your radio) vs just nailing the gas. It’s high time we stopped using “Cops” as an example for new officers, and went back to hiring adults. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Perhaps you should take a look at the requirements for [law enforcement](http://www.chp.ca.gov/recruiting/html/oqualifications.html) \*\*"High school diploma, GED, or California High School Proficiency Examination. Highly desirable: possession of a degree, Associate of Arts or higher, from an accredited college; also, additional course work or advanced skills in the following areas: English, including grammar, spelling, punctuation, vocabulary and composition; reading and comprehension; mathematics (used for traffic accident calculations); typing and computer skills (many officers use computers for reports, and most patrol vehicles currently have or will have computers); bilingual; physical fitness; other helpful courses may be social sciences such as sociology and psychology."\*\* Doesn’t exactly sound like they are recruiting idiots. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/83 "2007-07-14T19:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=wevets] Running red lights is pretty damn serious - it causes almost a thousand deaths every year: And your response is not to pit the fucker who ran the red light, but to pit the cops who try to stop him. … - Cops can’t just ignore a dangerous driver. We pay them to do the opposite. If this guy had killed someone running the red light, a pit of the cop who didn’t try to stop him would be justified. [/QUOTE] Sure, but is the way to prevent red light running a high speed chase which is hundreds of times more dangerous that the simple act of running a red light? Fuck, they got cameras for that now. No, not the cops who _try to stop him_, the cops who endanger the public in their pursuit. They don’t have to “ignore” the red light runner, then can try to pull him over normally, which works 99.99% of the time. If a high speed chase starts, then as soon as it appears the chase is causing a “clear and presnt dager to the public safety” they stop the chase. They then get a warrent for various and sundry crimes, which can be served upon the perp at home; which also works 90% of the time. Sure, maybe he can argue his car was stolen, but he’d have to hire a lwyer and go to trail for that, which is fairly rare. And then, he might or might not win, and if he lost, he’d be well and truely fucked. Taking to a ridiculous extreme, we could have speeders nuked from orbit with a 20 Megaton device. Obviously that’s silly, as it is overkill for a minor crime such as speding. But speeding does kill dudes, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/84 "2007-07-14T19:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] : Doesn’t exactly sound like they are recruiting idiots. [/QUOTE] Nope, cops are a bit smarter than the average citizenry. But cops do have control and testosternone problems, and when your testicles are saying “get him!” they can over-ride even a genius IQ. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/85 "2007-07-14T19:36:26Z")
Well, there’s your solution: assign all police chases to the female officers. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/86 "2007-07-15T02:37:23Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] :rolleyes: Perhaps you should take a look at the requirements for [law enforcement](http://www.chp.ca.gov/recruiting/html/oqualifications.html) \*\*"High school diploma, GED, or California High School Proficiency Examination. Highly desirable: possession of a degree, Associate of Arts or higher, from an accredited college; also, additional course work or advanced skills in the following areas: English, including grammar, spelling, punctuation, vocabulary and composition; reading and comprehension; mathematics (used for traffic accident calculations); typing and computer skills (many officers use computers for reports, and most patrol vehicles currently have or will have computers); bilingual; physical fitness; other helpful courses may be social sciences such as sociology and psychology."\*\* Doesn’t exactly sound like they are recruiting idiots. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: right back at ya, the “ **Minimum Qualifications for Cadet, CHP** ” is a “ **High school diploma, GED, or California High School Proficiency Examination** ”. Highly desirable is not a requirement! Doesn’t exactly sound like the requirements prevent the recruiting of idiots. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/87 "2007-07-15T03:54:39Z")
My son went though the recruiting process for the CHP, based on what he told me about the oral exams, an idiot would have a damn tough time getting a job there. ---
**Author:** ![Lenin\_s\_Tomb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@Lenin\_s\_Tomb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lenin_s_Tomb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2007, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/88 "2007-07-15T06:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Is he running because he’s an asshole, or is he running because he an asshole who has a body in the trunk? [/QUOTE] Does anyone ever have a body in the trunk? It seems that these chases occur because the driver had drugs in the car, was stealing the car, or had warrants out for his arrest on earlier crimes. I think the idea that someone is moving his wife’s body in an untraceable car and gets pulled over for a busted taillight is something that only happens on television. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/89 "2007-07-16T01:04:06Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] If a high speed chase starts, then as soon as it appears the chase is causing a “clear and presnt dager to the public safety” they stop the chase. [/quote] So at what point did this particular chase start posing a clear and present danger? 10 minutes in? 15 minutes in? _When_ in the chase did the suspect hit 100 mph? I’m not saying we should always endanger the public with high speed chases - one innocent dead is one too many. What I’m saying is that neither the **wevets cam** system where I link to each officer’s police car dashboard camera, view the chase myself, and tell the officer when to call it off from the comfort of my thousands of miles away Barcolounger sipping a Mohito, nor the nearly indentical **DrDeth cam** (your choice of lounger and beverage may vary 😉 ) system is appropriate. There’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here, and I’d like to see the specifics of why we know _this particular chase_ is an egregious example of misconduct on the part of the _specific officers involved_. None of us here knows that the officers in this chase didn’t consider all the arguements presented and reject them for some compelling reason we are unaware of because we are all hundreds or thousands of miles away. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/90 "2007-07-16T02:25:19Z")
[QUOTE=wevets] So at what point did this particular chase start posing a clear and present danger? [/QUOTE] Very good point. Downdown North Little Rock, dangerous. Nevada highway, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/91 "2007-07-16T03:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=wevets] So at what point did this particular chase start posing a clear and present danger? 10 minutes in? 15 minutes in? _When_ in the chase did the suspect hit 100 mph? I’m not saying we should always endanger the public with high speed chases - one innocent dead is one too many. What I’m saying is that neither the **wevets cam** system where I link to each officer’s police car dashboard camera, view the chase myself, and tell the officer when to call it off from the comfort of my thousands of miles away Barcolounger sipping a Mohito, nor the nearly indentical **DrDeth cam** (your choice of lounger and beverage may vary 😉 ) system is appropriate. There’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here, and I’d like to see the specifics of why we know _this particular chase_ is an egregious example of misconduct on the part of the _specific officers involved_. None of us here knows that the officers in this chase didn’t consider all the arguements presented and reject them for some compelling reason we are unaware of because we are all hundreds or thousands of miles away. [/QUOTE] Excellent points. Hindsight is always 20/20. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/92 "2007-07-16T03:25:29Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Taking to a ridiculous extreme, we could have speeders nuked from orbit [/QUOTE] It’s the only way to be sure… [QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Very good point. Downdown North Little Rock, dangerous. Nevada highway, maybe not. [/QUOTE] The wreck in the OP was on a rural highway. It’s just bad monkey all around. And the “Stolen Car” alibi can pretty easily be turned into a hangman’s noose for the perp if he’s asked the right questions in the right order. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/93 "2007-07-16T04:30:04Z")
One problem which you’re forgetting is that, unfortunately, runners don’t slow down. They don’t just say “yeah, those cops aren’t chasing me now, I can just throttle back and enjoy myself!” They just keep going and racing away. And then they can hit someone. Often, the only warning bystanders (bydrivers?) have is the police sirens blaring away. I’m not saying there;'s a good, nice, easy answer. But a no-chase policy certainly isn’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/94 "2007-07-16T05:24:27Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] One problem which you’re forgetting is that, unfortunately, runners don’t slow down. … [/QUOTE] If there’s nobody following them, how do we KNOW that’s true? [QUOTE=DrDeth] … Does anyone have a cite on how many HSC’s result in a **violent felony** conviction _outside of the chase itself?_ … … So, I want some cites- how many violent criminals are nabbed by a HCS where the cops had no idea they were chasing a felon to start with? … [/QUOTE] I waiting for them too. The only thing my Google-fu has produced isn’t cited, > [@](#): > > Research has shown several important facts: > > ``` > * 40% of pursuits end in crashes. 20% of pursuits end in personal injury. 1% ends in death. ... > * Less that 17% of suspects flee for an underlying felony. Most suspects flee for no drivers license, no insurance, no registration, DUI, so their parents won’t find out, or like offenses. ... > * When police departments tighten pursuit policies there is no increase in the number of suspects who flee. ... > * When police discontinue or decline to pursue the fleeing suspects generally respond in a short distance by trying to blend in with traffic or by ditching the car and fleeing on foot. ...[RIGHT][CITE](http://www.pursuitwatch.org/stories/if_bad_guys.htm)[/RIGHT] > > ``` Maybe it’s 'cause the stats don’t justify the carnage? Yup hindsight is 20/20, makes it really useful when your deciding what to do in the future. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/95 "2007-07-16T05:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] If there’s nobody following them, how do we KNOW that’s true?I waiting for them too. The only thing my Google-fu has produced isn’t cited, Maybe it’s 'cause the stats don’t justify the carnage? [/QUOTE] Good quotes. This is telling "20% of pursuits end in personal injury. 1% ends in death. … - Less that 17% of suspects flee for an underlying felony." That felony figure of course includes many many non-violent felonies. In other words, more dudes are injured becuase of HSC than were injured that due to the crime they hoping to get away with. So, HSC don’t help. They hurt more dudes than they help. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/96 "2007-07-16T12:20:14Z")
How bout this then. Make running from a stop a felony with a mandatory 1 year sentence. Then make sure you chase and catch _every_ person that runs so that there is no doubt that you are serious about the new law. If everyone knew that running would result in a certain stop (with a totalled car and possible bodily harm to yourself), a boat load of tickets, and a minimum 1 year term how many would run? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/97 "2007-07-16T13:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] How bout this then. Make running from a stop a felony with a mandatory 1 year sentence. Then make sure you chase and catch _every_ person that runs so that there is no doubt that you are serious about the new law. [/QUOTE] Seems that last part just adds to the problem. I’ll go with the first, but catch the guy without a high speed chase. A roadblock, knock on his door, call his Mother. 🙂 Chasing to prevent high speed chases is like nuking third world countries that get the bomb to prevent other countries from getting the bomb. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/98 "2007-07-16T13:16:01Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] If everyone knew that running would result in a certain stop (with a totalled car and possible bodily harm to yourself), a boat load of tickets, and a minimum 1 year term how many would run? [/QUOTE] When someone decides to run, they aren’t making a rational choice weighing positives and negatives. I’m pretty sure anyone who runs would already end up in the pokey (no cites though). eta: > [@Lenin's Tomb](#): > > Does anyone ever have a body in the trunk? [Police: Truck driver suspected of killing 6 in 4 states](http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/12/serialkillings.suspect/index.html) > [@](#): > > (CNN) – A Tennessee detective’s keen eye may have nabbed a serial killer. > > A long-distance truck driver gave statements implicating himself in six slayings in four states after Detective Sgt. Pat Postiglione discovered what appeared to be blood inside the cab of his rig, police said. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/99 "2007-07-16T14:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Isn’t this the assumption which is at least part of the pit? Yes, career criminals run red lights. So do kids in their dad’s car. So do drunks. So do all sorts of other people. Only X proportion (because I don’t have any statistics) will run through more red lights. [/QUOTE] Aside from the people who simply fail to see the red light, perhaps because they’re [texting](http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=070715&cat=news&st=newsd8qd058o0&src=ap), wouldn’t you figure that almost everyone who deliberately runs a red light will make that same calculation another time? Honestly, can you picture people rationalizing one red light, then swearing off, thus running only one red light in their lives? I’d guess the recidivism rate has to be near 100%. And the people who failed to see the light might fail to notice another light later, or get another text message. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532/100 "2007-07-16T14:38:35Z")
Red Lights: There are five second yellows and three second yellows and one second yellows. I have been caught by the latter two, thinking I had enough time to make the first, and been essentially forced to run a red for safety. (And once I hydroplaned entirely through a stop, but that was a long time ago when I wasn’t as experienced as I am now) Running: I _accidentally_ ran from the cops once. The problem with NY state cops is that their cars are maroon, and their hoods have no decals. Being that I’m color blind, I once had the occasion to attempt to slow down in the left lane, checked my mirror, saw a car way too close, floored it, as all I saw was hood, and was up to about 100 MPH, unable to pull away from the car, when he turned his lights on. It was one of those weird things, but it’s easily possible to do to someone by tailgating them. I literally couldn’t tell it was a cop car till I saw the light reflections, he was too close. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/high-speed-police-chases/411532.md?page=6)