# Highest combined looks-talent quotient **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445 "2009-12-16T03:32:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/1 "2009-12-16T03:32:31Z")
As a product of my culture, I’m always momentarily surprised to discover that a really good looking actor is actually good at their job: one tends to expect character actors to be uglier than those who tend to get by on looks alone and don’t really need talent. Now just taking subjectivity as a given–there will be huge _cough_cough_bradpittsux_cough\* disagreements in here–I’ll start the ball rolling by nominating Michelle Pfeiffer–far as I can tell, she spent some time as a 10/10 lookswise, and has proven her chops as an actress–and Kim Basinger. Not always great, but when she hits she hits hard. So rating looks by 10, and talent by 10, I’ll call both women 10+10’s. Who else? My alltime favorite actor, Charles Laughton, was as ugly as they come, but Peter O’Toole? 10+10. Lawrence Olivier? 10+10. Bette Davis, my alltime favorite actress, had a narrow window when she wasn’t frightening, but she was never a 10. Yours? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/2 "2009-12-16T03:38:23Z")
Kate Winslet. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/3 "2009-12-16T03:49:09Z")
Cary Grant Katherine Hepburn Audrey Hepburn Kristin Chenowith Liv Ullman Sophia Loren Brad Pitt Johnny Depp Charlize Theron ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/4 "2009-12-16T03:53:03Z")
Subjective response: Cary Grant: not an actor; a star Katherine Hepburn: not an actor; a star Audrey Hepburn: not an actor; a star Kristin Chenowith: not an actor; a chipmunk Liv Ullman: check, 10+10 Sophia Loren: hmm. I’ll give her a 7+10, acting+looks Brad Pitt: 5+10 Johnny Depp: check, 10+10 Charlize Theron: check, 10+10 ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/5 "2009-12-16T04:09:46Z")
Natalie Portman. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/6 "2009-12-16T04:16:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Subjective response: > > Katherine Hepburn: not an actor; a star > Audrey Hepburn: not an actor; a star I beg your pardon? Both women were trained thespians with more chops than they knew what to do with. Marilyn Monroe was a star. Kate Hepburn was an actress, as was Audrey. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/7 "2009-12-16T04:20:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Subjective response: > not an actor; a star By this do you mean someone who carries the day ( as an actor ) through natural charisma rather than learned skills? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/8 "2009-12-16T04:20:50Z")
Nicole Kidman. I’d gladly abuse her in unspeakable ways with her Academy Award… ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/9 "2009-12-16T04:21:50Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Brad Pitt: 5+10 Is the 5 in acting ability or looks? ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/10 "2009-12-16T04:23:01Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > … > Liv Ullman > … If we were including intelligence as well, then I think Liv would be hard to top. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/11 "2009-12-16T04:41:12Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > I beg your pardon? > > Both women were trained thespians with more chops than they knew what to do with. Marilyn Monroe was a star. Kate Hepburn was an actress, as was Audrey. I subjectively disagree. Kathryn Hepburn was the world’s greatest actress, seriously, at playing Kathryn Hepburn. “She ran the gamut of emotions from A to B.” When the part fit her, she was as good as is humanly possible. That’s not acting; that’s lack of self-consciousness. Ditto Audrey. Subjectively of course. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/12 "2009-12-16T04:42:44Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Is the 5 in acting ability or looks? Acting. Lookswise, I’d kill your grandmother to stick my tongue up his ass. Metaphorically speaking of course . . . ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/13 "2009-12-16T04:48:45Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > I beg your pardon? > > Both women were trained thespians with more chops than they knew what to do with. Marilyn Monroe was a star. Kate Hepburn was an actress, as was Audrey. Monroe was a helluva good actress. She steals every scene she is in with every actor she ever worked with. And unless her character is doing a “let’s pretend” you can never tell that she’s acting. She is as good an actress that ever lived. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/14 "2009-12-16T05:11:24Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > _cough_cough_bradpittsux_cough\* Haven’t seen **Kalifornia** , **12 Monkeys** or **Inglorius Basterds** , eh? Brad Pitt can act. And he’s cute as hell. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/15 "2009-12-16T05:14:17Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Haven’t seen **Kalifornia** , **12 Monkeys** or **Inglorius Basterds** , eh? > > Brad Pitt can act. And he’s cute as hell. Kalifornia: acceptable; benefits from lowered expectations. 12 Monkeys: that’s not acting, that’s contact lenses. Inglorious Basterds: not embarrassing, but not 10/10. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/16 "2009-12-16T05:21:12Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Kalifornia: acceptable; benefits from lowered expectations. By who? (whom?) When I saw it the only thing I had seen Brad Pitt in, and I barely remembered him, was Thelma and Louise. I hadn’t seen A River Runs Through It or Johnny Suede or Across The Tracks or anything else. He was a new actor to me, and I was blown away. I thought his character was truly frightening. I was amazed afterward when I read that he was considered a fluffy pretty boy. What? Are we talking about the same guy? I couldn’t believe it. I’ve never changed my opinion of him as a very good actor. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/17 "2009-12-16T05:25:19Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Kalifornia: acceptable; benefits from lowered expectations. > 12 Monkeys: that’s not acting, that’s contact lenses. > Inglorious Basterds: not embarrassing, but not 10/10. Wait! Wait! Fight Club! Fight Club and Snatch! You can’t tell me his acting was subpar in Fight Club and Snatch! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/18 "2009-12-16T06:02:26Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Wait! Wait! Fight Club! Fight Club and Snatch! You can’t tell me his acting was subpar in Fight Club and Snatch! Not subpar; par. Look, he’s a star, like Cary Grant; not an actor, like Charles Laughton. He’s great at what he does: being Brad Pitt. I bow to no one in my love of Cary Grant. But he was not an actor. He, like Pitt, was a star. All charisma. But ALL charisma: worthwhile for that alone. Who needs chops when you’re Cary Grant or Brad Pitt? Or John Wayne or Kate Hepburn? Great is great, but you’re great at what you’re great at, not at everything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/19 "2009-12-16T06:24:46Z")
You should see Brad Pitt in that Jesse James movie. He’s fantastic in that. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445/20 "2009-12-16T06:33:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You should see Brad Pitt in that Jesse James movie. He’s fantastic in that. It’s a masterpiece. And he’s perfectly cast and doesn’t hurt it at all. Look I love Brad Pitt. Cary Grant was in a LOT of movies and only ruined the ones he TRIED to act in. Brad Pitt knows his limitations and works perfectly well within them. Now, can we move on? Or should I ask a mod to change the thread title to **Brad Pitt: Actor or Movie Star?** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-combined-looks-talent-quotient/521445.md?page=2)