# Highest name ordinal suffix? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 4, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518 "2007-07-04T19:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/41 "2013-01-21T22:26:18Z")
After[Jan Six](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Six) (1618-1700), famously portraited by Rembrandt in 1654, there’s been 10 more generations of Sixes, and each of them has produced a ‘Jan’. Link to some [fox news story](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/27/rembrandts-jan-years-watching-family-foibles-goes-public-display/) discussing how the family still owns a bunch of Rembrandts. I think Jan Six XI works for Sotheby’s or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/42 "2013-01-22T00:45:32Z")
Setting dates for family gatherings must be a pain ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/43 "2013-01-22T05:07:32Z")
Skipper on my first boat was Larry Mack Jr. His father died a year or so after he took command, and he dropped the “Jr.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/44 "2013-01-22T15:52:37Z")
For some reason jr. and sr. have always annoyed me. If I did name a kid after myself I would definitely go with the “the Elder” and “the Younger” format. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/45 "2013-01-22T17:46:17Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I bet he gets grilled whenever he goes through Custioms and Immigration… > > “All your male children have the same name as you? Not even different middle names? Is this some sort of scam?” > > Using different ordinals to separate the people of the same name in the same generation makes sense, I guess.. does it apply across more than one set of parents? Say George Foreman III and George Foreman IV (who are brothers), both have a son and name him George Foreman. Would these two sons be George Foreman VII and George Foremen IX? Actually, I think some of his children are female, but still named George. Egotistical, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/46 "2013-01-22T18:48:23Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > For some reason jr. and sr. have always annoyed me. If I did name a kid after myself I would definitely go with the “the Elder” and “the Younger” format. My Dad has something of the same feelings. He’s never liked it when people use “Junior” as a nickname. So my “official” suffix is II, instead of Junior. I use my suffix for voter registration, and a very few other things where it’s absolutely necessary to make a distinction. Other than that, I don’t use it at all. Dad typically uses a nickname, and I typically don’t, so confusion is kept to reasonable minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/47 "2013-01-22T19:12:18Z")
There is a person from my hometown who is VI (the sixth). ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/48 "2013-01-22T19:29:21Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > After[Jan Six](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Six) (1618-1700), famously portraited by Rembrandt in 1654, there’s been 10 more generations of Sixes, and each of them has produced a ‘Jan’. Link to some [fox news story](http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/27/rembrandts-jan-years-watching-family-foibles-goes-public-display/) discussing how the family still owns a bunch of Rembrandts. I think Jan Six XI works for Sotheby’s or something like that. But _do_ the Jan Sixes actually use this kind of ordinals? I am a bit wary about the article because US-based AP might have used the usage familar to Americans in their report (I discount “Jan Six X — sometimes called “Ten”” because journalists seem to have the habit of sometimes making up monikers). Is there actually a common usage of Firstname Lastname Sr, Jr, I, II, etc outside the US? I only ever read about this kind of names in an US context. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/49 "2013-03-15T11:07:04Z")
[A local obit](http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestate/obituary.aspx?n=william-thomas-keating&pid=163643766&fhid=13834#fbLoggedOut) with a suffix of VI. He had only daughters, so the suffixes stop there in his line. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/50 "2013-03-15T12:57:45Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > For some reason jr. and sr. have always annoyed me. If I did name a kid after myself I would definitely go with the “the Elder” and “the Younger” format. You do know “junior” and “senior” are just Latin for “younger” and “elder,” right? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/51 "2013-03-15T15:02:40Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > You do know “junior” and “senior” are just Latin for “younger” and “elder,” right? If this is true, it’s going to be very difficult for me to ever take Cato Junior or Pliny Junior seriously ever again. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/52 "2014-11-04T13:03:13Z")
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I’m surprised no one here mentioned Christopher Columbus XX, the explorer’s (great^17)-grandson. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/53 "2014-11-04T13:18:32Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Could I just name my son “John Smith” even if my name also happened to be called “John Smith”? > [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m sure you could, but you’d have to be willing to deal with all kinds of legal and financial mixups. Even people who are not related but have the same name get caught up in credit record problems. I don’t believe that in a country where everyone has a social security number, there would be serious problems. In the UK it is only royals that have suffixes. My son, father and grandfather had the same name as me without any problem. ---
**Author:** ![kk\_fusion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kk_fusion/32/15276_2.png) [@kk\_fusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kk_fusion)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/54 "2014-11-04T14:42:40Z")
> [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](#): > > Not quite what the OP asked for, since he was royal, but it’s worth mentioning [Prince Heinrich LXVII Reuss of Schleiz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuss_Younger_Line) who I believe had the largest number after his name of anyone in history. Beaten by his fifth-degree cousin Heinrich LXXV, who died at the age of one. Presumably of buffer overflow. The German [wiki article](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stammliste_von_Reu%C3%9F) on their family mentions the name _Heinrich_ 854 times. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/55 "2014-11-04T15:03:27Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I don’t believe that in a country where everyone has a social security number, there would be serious problems. You would be mistaken in that belief. Similarity in names causes all kinds of mistaken identity problems, and the existence of Social Security Numbers is not a cure. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/56 "2014-11-04T15:58:59Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Well, according to Miss Manners (a.k.a. Judith Martin), traditional etiquette dictates that you may only use your ordinal suffix while your progenitors of the same name are still alive. So when Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr. dies, Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Jr. becomes Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr. and Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack III becomes Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Jr. This would seem to put an upper limit on V or VI, and there wouldn’t be many adults running around using anything more than III… I think that the complex rules were probably, if at all, followed rigorously only among aristocrats/polite society/very rich people, etc. At that level, it becomes a social club where one is _expected_ to know George DuMont McGinnis Rochambeau-Whittier III is doing this year, whether he still owns the 100 meter yacht, and how his grandfather is doing. Also, you and all your relatives have to remember to send _all_ of them a card, every year, and make appropriate visits. Since you’re following his family, as soon as his grandpa drops dead you know immediately what to write on the condolence letter that you will have your butler deposit in the post tomorrow morning. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > … > > Also, it occurs to me that it is probably more trouble to change your suffix with banks / government / creditors / etc. than it is worth, so that even if you’ve just become Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr., it’s easier to keep your visa card as Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack IV than to change the name. Yes. Remember that in older days, names were more informal than they are now and it was much easier to change them casually. Nowadays, the DMV, the passport office, the IRS, ShittyBank, and the Sav-A-Lot grocery store rewards card program all require extensive documentation to change the name they have on file for you, even trivially, and you have to wait hours in line to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/57 "2014-11-04T16:04:17Z")
> [@kk\_fusion](#): > > Beaten by his fifth-degree cousin Heinrich LXXV, who died at the age of one. Presumably of buffer overflow. > > … 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/58 "2014-11-04T16:07:14Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Well, according to Miss Manners (a.k.a. Judith Martin), traditional etiquette dictates that you may only use your ordinal suffix while your progenitors of the same name are still alive. So when Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr. dies, Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Jr. becomes Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr. and Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack III becomes Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Jr. This would seem to put an upper limit on V or VI, and there wouldn’t be many adults running around using anything more than III… I think that the complex rules were probably, if at all, followed rigorously only among aristocrats/polite society/very rich people, etc. At that level, it becomes a social club where one is _expected_ to know George DuMont McGinnis Rochambeau-Whittier III is doing this year, whether he still owns the 100 meter yacht, and how his grandfather is doing. Also, you and all your relatives have to remember to send _all_ of them a card, every year, and make appropriate visits. Since you’re following his family, as soon as his grandpa drops dead you know immediately what to write on the condolence letter that you will have your butler deposit in the post tomorrow morning. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > … > > Also, it occurs to me that it is probably more trouble to change your suffix with banks / government / creditors / etc. than it is worth, so that even if you’ve just become Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack Sr., it’s easier to keep your visa card as Joe Rae Billy Bob Armadillo-Thwack IV than to change the name. Yes. Remember that in older days, names were more informal than they are now and it was much easier to change them casually. Nowadays, the DMV, the passport office, the IRS, ShittyBank, and the Sav-A-Lot grocery store rewards card program all require extensive documentation to change the name they have on file for you, even trivially, and you have to wait hours in line to do so. I remember reading somewhere about a, I think, South Pacific culture where people change their name regularly throughout their life as they rack up accomplishments that are associated with additional names. It’s sort of similar to titles of achievement like BS or PhD that people tack on to the end of their names, but for them, the new title actually becomes part of their name itself. So instead of becoming John Smith, BS, MD, PhD, ASP, BBQ, XYZ, you become John CuresPancreaticCancer ParticlePhysicsGuru BoatingExpert FastestEverestClimber Smith. Supposedly people of this background in other countries are notorious for filing a large number of name change requests per capita. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/59 "2014-11-04T16:18:07Z")
In the USA, one’s legal name is any name that he customarily uses and is known by. Hence, a stage name or a pen name can become a legal name, and one can have multiple legal names. So I can go by the name John Brown IV for many years, and that would become my legal name. “Bill Smith”, for example, is obviously a legal name for William Smith, who cannot evade contractual obligations assigned to Bill Smith. But what about my wife? Is Mrs. John Brown IV properly known as Mary Brown IV, to distinguish her from her mother in law, Mary Brown III? I’m reminded of John Y. Brown, an NFL owner who married commentator Phyllis George, who became commonly known as Phyllis Y. Brown. There are NCAA football players with “Sr.” affixed to their name, which suggests that they are already married and have a son, Jr. Does the son actually have to be born before you can call yourself Sr., or is intent sufficient? In Arab culture, a boy can begin calling himself “Abu Ahmed” at any age, signalling the intent to name his first son Ahmed. As soon as he is betrothed to his intended, she can begin calling herself Umm Ahmed, ‘Mother of Ahmed’. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518/60 "2014-11-04T18:51:06Z")
> [@kk\_fusion](#): > > Beaten by his fifth-degree cousin Heinrich LXXV, who died at the age of one. Presumably of buffer overflow. > > The German [wiki article](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stammliste_von_Reu%C3%9F) on their family mentions the name _Heinrich_ 854 times. > **[Imperial County of Reuss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuss_(state))** > > Reuss (German: Reuß \[ʁɔɪ̯s\], ROYSS) was the name of several historical states located in present-day Thuringia, Germany. Several lordships of the Holy Roman Empire which arose after 1300 and became Imperial Counties from 1673 and Imperial Principalities in the late 18th century were ruled by the House of Reuss. > A varying number of these counties came into being by partition; they were partially merged and divided again. After the end of the empire in 1806, the principality of the elder line, as ... > [@](#): > > All the males of the House of Reuss are named Heinrich (Henry) plus a number. In the elder line the numbering covers all male children of the elder House, and the numbers increase until 100 is reached and then start again at 1. In the younger line the system is similar but the numbers increase until the end of the century before starting again at 1. I have not found anything in English, saying how high the numbers have gotten. Do any of the German wiki pages give a record? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/highest-name-ordinal-suffix/410518.md?page=4)