# Hiking on the Iraq/Iran border. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972 "2011-06-10T13:34:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/101 "2011-06-13T15:56:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > His very subtle point of “If I were Iranian, I’d treat all Americans like spies, and I think those Americans are spies, and Iran isn’t doing anything wrong” isn’t a defense of Iran at all… oh, no. > > . Hmm…no, it isn’t. If I were an Iranian leader, not only would I be suspicious about Americans crossing my borders, but I would most certainly try to buid a nuclear bomb too (In fact, that’s the reason why I’m coinvinced they’re building one. It makes perfect sense to me). It has no bearing on my support or lack thereof of Iran, in the same way that saying, “If I were an axe murderer, I would conceal my crimes the following way” doesn’t make me a supporter of axe-murderers. Besides, I don’t think Iran is the worst place on the planet. If I were given a limited choice, I’d pick becoming Iranian over a significant number of other options (North Korean, Saudi Arabian, ex-Zaire Congolese, Syrian, etc, etc…). So, bites me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/102 "2011-06-13T16:09:45Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Besides, I don’t think Iran is the worst place on the planet. If I were given a limited choice, I’d pick becoming Iranian over a significant number of other options (North Korean, Saudi Arabian, ex-Zaire Congolese, Syrian, etc, etc…). So, bites me. I’ve said this many times before, too. We like to demonize Iran, but I’d much rather live there than in Saudi Arabia, even as a man. As a woman, 100x more so. We are more natural allies with Iran than we are with Saudi Arabia. And I use that term loosely, as I don’t see us being allies with either one of them in the sense that we are allies with Britain or France or Germany. But still, our interests are more aligned with Iran than with the Saudis. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/103 "2011-06-13T16:10:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And anyone who has thought about this for two seconds knows why Iran is holding those two guys: because they are Americans. Obvious reasons are obvious. They have detained other westerners in similar circumstances in the past. As I mentioned previously a French diver, at least one German citizen, and I guess there has been other cases I’m unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/104 "2011-06-13T16:12:22Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > They have detained other westerners in similar circumstances in the past. As I mentioned previously a French diver, at least one German citizen, and I guess there has been other cases I’m unaware of. An entire crew of a British Naval vessel not that long ago. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/105 "2011-06-13T16:14:39Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Really? What makes you think that Iran is anti-war, or that it has any interest in social justice? Or that it has much sympathy for the Autonomous Kurdistan. Kurds are an issue for Iran as well. Iranian border with Kurdistan is most certainly a sensitive area. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/106 "2011-06-13T16:16:01Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Are you suggesting that it’s possible that the three hikers went to Kurdistan to protest China’s occupation of Tibet? No. I assumed that their opinion on war was incidental to their recreational activities. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972/107 "2011-06-13T17:52:26Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > There are people on this board who have been and have lived (or are living), by choice, in a variety of unsavory places. For instance, Saudi Arabia is a significantly worse country than Iran, freedom-wise. Did you ever attack **Paul in Saudia** for choosing to live there? Huh? Why do you think I would have something against **Paul in Saudi**? I don’t have anything against anyone who wants to live in some country for whatever reasons they may have, but I think most of those people will fully recognize the shortcomings of whatever country they may be in. For example, I lived in China for a year, and fully recognized that the government is repressive of free speech, freedom of religion, women’s rights, environmental responsibility, and many other issues. My criticism for people isn’t necessarily based on where they live and work, its for people who seem to want to find reasons why it really isn’t so bad for a country like Iran to hold two young people for years on trumped-up charges that they are unable to dispute (they still have not had access to a lawyer), while being subject to physical and mental abuse. If Westerners of whatever persuasion want to go live in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Zimbabwe and, say, teach English or do other good things, and they are there because they understand the country is screwed up and want to make a contribution to un-screwing up the place, then I tip my hat to them. But if someone wants to make excuses for why various countries are acting in reprehensible ways, then I will disagree with them no matter where they choose to live. ETA: Note that I am the one defending these hikers, even though a couple of them lived in Syria and Lebanon and chose to vacation in Iraq. Other than the fact that things turned out poorly, I wouldn’t criticize any of them for wanting to live or visit those countries. Could you be confusing my point of view with others here who think people are crazy for not wanting to live cushy lives in First World countries? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiking-on-the-iraq-iran-border-really/584972.md?page=5)