Or people could learn to clean their bags. But I guess that’s too hard so fuck it.
No because your arguing straws has distracted everyone. But Sam is right. There’s plenty of room for landfills. The issue isn’t, “oh noes, landfills” . It’s using up our limited supply of petroleum and the energy cost to make and ship stuff. And all stuff costs, not just plastic.
Cleaning isn’t free, either. It costs hot water and soap and transportation. And space to dry it. Cleaning big valuable things makes good sense. Cleaning flimsy bags well enough to render them safe from foodborne illness may not.
I give up. It’s pointless. This has turned into a Monty Python sketch.
That has substantial environmental cost. Washing fabrics consumes energy and puts detergents into the water supply.
That’s partly on you. You’ve failed to engage. Saying over and over, “we have to end single use plastic” is not very persuasive. What’s the problem? It’s not landfill space. I believe it is, as i said above, using up our limited supply of petroleum (although plastics can be made from other hydrocarbon sources) and the energy cost to make and transport them. But “single use plastics” are hardly unique in costing energy. Paper manufacture is pretty dirty, too, and uses a lot of energy.
I agree that we need to be more efficient in our use of resources. And also that we need to expand our repertoire of energy sources. But I’m not sold that “end all single use plastic” is necessary or sufficient. I’m not even certain it’s helpful.
Yes, yes you are totally correct, it’s on me. It’s been well established by all parties that single use plastics are the environmentally correct thing to use, and we should not concern ourselves with them.
Thanks for straightening us out.
More of a camels back?
I don’t think the oceans should contain giant islands of plastic residue, or fish should be high in microbeads. If not using plastic straws or bags would make these problems significantly less, so much the better. But is this the effect? I get doing everything is sometimes better than doing nothing, but if convincing people to make positive changes Pareto’s Law seems a good starting point.
Yes, of course. Because “i would like to throw away 20 plastic straws a year” is totally indistinguishable from “i have no concern whatsoever with single use plastic”.
Yes!
These plastics already exist – see, for instance, polyhydroxyalkanoates (PHA) and polylactic acid (PLA). These are bioplastics of organic origin that can be broken down by bacteria, algae, and fungi.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653522002168
That story about the nine-year-old seems to beautifully illustrate my point about well-intentioned environmental mandates not being well thought out, and apparently not being based on particularly solid data, either. 
Not sure I’m willing to take your 1.2 million plastic bottles at face value, but I really do question whether our recycling practices and facilities are so badly lacking that 91% of plastic bottles are thrown away – although I agree, as I said earlier, that recycling practices and facilities are pretty poor in some communities and we need a major focus on improving them. The reason I’m skeptical that 91% of these bottles get thrown away is that, aside from the oddly precise nature of a number that is inherently very difficult to measure, the plastic bottles used for soft drinks and bottled water are almost universally made from polyethylene terephthalate (sometimes abbreviated PET or PETE). PET is designated by the recycling symbol “1” and is the easiest of all plastics to recycle – all recycling facilities can handle it.
But improving recycling is one area that is really worth a concerted effort. To repeat what I said earlier, I’ve been surprised lately to notice that at least 80% of my household waste volume is now recycling. In anticipation of this, the recycling bin provided by the city is huge (and on wheels) and is about twice as big as the garbage bin.
Easier said than done. Some bags, like the semi-rigid insulated grocery bags that I usually use, have to be hand-washed. Others are not machine-washable for other reasons, and as previously noted, washing has an environmental cost, too.
Let me once again reiterate my story about the “standard” reusable grocery bags recently adopted by several grocery chains. I had to buy one once because I had not brought my usual insulated bags since I only intended to pick up a couple of items. It’s this crappy thing that seems to be made out of woven plastic – so yay for reducing plastic use and microplastic pollution! And one of the things that went into this bag was some product from the bulk food counter that happened to be greasy or oily, and was in one of those biodegradable paper containers because heaven forfend that they should provide the plastic containers with tight-fitting lids like they once had. And of course the container spills in transit. And of course the woven-plastic shit grocery bag leaks like a sieve. It was only by pure luck that it was in the trunk of the car and not on a seat, and that it was sitting on top of a folded heavy garden-waste paper bag which absorbed the spill.
I then tried to wash out this “reusable” bag manually in the kitchen sink, because it clearly wasn’t machine washable. After it leaked all over the kitchen floor I finally put it put in the garage to dry. Eventually I found that I hadn’t washed out all the grease well enough, and it had left a grease spot in an otherwise pristeen small cardboard box that it had been sitting on that I had kept as a possibly useful box for storing small items. So, in the end, this piece of shit bag meant to save the environment went into the garbage, and the cardboard box it had ruined went into recycling.
To cite my own personal experience, the only time I ever use a straw is when I have fast food, and that – to make an estimate on the high side – is no more than twice a month, and usually less. So that’s a maximum of 24 plastic straws a year, and really probably more like 12 or 15. Now, of course, it’s paper straws that I immediately throw away, and use my reserve of plastic ones. 
I have half a dozen of those really cheap woven plastic grocery bags and love them. They are much stronger than paper bags, so i can, for instance, put 4-6 half gallons of milk in one. Yes, you need to keep them clean, but they can be reused many many times. And they are light and fold into a small space.
I don’t think that’s fair. He only kept repeating that because you guys kept ignoring it. You argument against him on straws was that other single-use plastics are a bigger problem. That’s not a rebuttal if he’s already said that he is against all single-use plastics.
Plus you did it again in this very post:
Here’s the answer he already made earlier in the thread.
It’s frustrating when people’s rebuttals seem to ignore what you’ve actually said. And you can hardly call that post “refusing to engage.”
And, honestly, I find it hard to argue against the position I just quoted: Reduce the use of single-use plastics that already have alternatives.
As someone deeply concerned about both the state of our environment generally and climate change specifically, I sometimes feel guilty about arguing with those supporting environmental initiatives. But the reason, as I’ve stated repeatedly, is that some of these “alternatives” are ineffective, poorly thought-out, and often have directly negative unforeseen consequences. Not to mention the ones that seem to be premised on just plain bad information.
One news item that really infuriated me recently was when a local city council voted to ban bottled spring water from city hall and also (because, why not?) from all civic centers under the jurisdiction of the city. Based on the sanctimonious sermon that accompanied the announcement, one infers that they would have been happy to ban bottled water from the entire city, the entire country, or the whole world, if that had been within their power.
Their point was to signal their do-gooder virtue and also to show how terrific the city tap water is (it isn’t – it stinks of chlorine and tastes like horse piss). It’s a truly remarkable example of purely perfomative sanctimonious virtue-signaling by a shamelessly hypocritical pack of preening bums. It’s the kind of idiocy that seriously damages the credibility of genuinely vital environmental initiatives.
Well, there was a lot of discussion on “will we run out of landfill space”. I simply can’t imagine how we would. Also, the alternatives go to landfills, too. Lots of paper bags are being trucked to landfills. (And I’m on board with making it inconvenient to throw away bags.) So here i guess we are disagreeing on facts. I mean, i don’t really think those plastics will stay in landfills for centuries, either. I think our descendants will mine the landfills for hydrocarbons. But i don’t think the landfilled plastics are going to cause much harm in the interim.
But if you want to talk about rebuttals ignoring what people say:
I grant that if you use a straw to quickly drink a soda, those compostable things that we all know aren’t being composted, and are ALSO being trucked to a landfill, may work. I rarely drink soda and have never tried. But they melt when I’ve tried drinking my coffee with one. Literally. It’s pretty gross.
Although I’m intrigued to try an actual piece of straw. The ad says it can be used in hot drinks. But I’ve already purchased a decade’s worth of plastic straws, so buying a bunch of straw straws is unlikely to keep that plastic from a landfill.
Okay, i need to update that. I’m currently in Ottawa, drinking a big cup of Starbucks coffee with a cardboard straw. And it’s beginning to get soft, but I’m drinking pretty slowly, and i think it’s going to hold up long enough.
I remain dubious that this cardboard straw is any better for the environment than plastic straws, but they seem to have solved the usability problem. Using several cardboard straws next time i need a colonoscopy would be a perfectly viable option, too. (I estimate i would need about a dozen, but that’s hardly something anyone does very often.)
I’m a little vague on the connection between straws and colonoscopies. Perhaps you’d care to explain? On second thought, I think I’d rather not know. 
Our city just banned ‘single use items’… Not single use plastic - single use items. This includes paper bags. I went through the drive-through at McDonald’s the other day, and they handed me my fries and burger sepately, with no bag. I told them I couldn’t take them that way as I was driving, and they told me I had to order a bag for $.15 at the previous window, and now the law says I couldn’t have a paper bag to put all my paper-wrapped products into.
They recommended bringing my own cloth bag in the future. Because everyone loves putting open food in a used cloth bag.
The world is going insane.
That’s odd, I can’t find any information about any cities that have done anything like that. Are there any news articles that you have read that told you this, or is this just information that you got from the guy that worked at McDonald’s?
I always have at least one or two of these reusable shopping bags in my purse and another couple in the car. They only weigh a couple of ounces and pack up to be about the size of my wallet. I’ve had them for years and avoided probably thousands of plastic bags that way. They are surprisingly durable, machine-washable, much more comfortable to carry than plastic bags, etc.
Here you go:
Notably, from the link: