# Hilary Clinton and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Personal E-mail Account **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092 "2015-03-03T14:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/81 "2015-03-03T22:17:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I don’t know, but I would bet that there are similar record keeping requirements for written documents. There certainly are at the Wisconsin State agency where I work. There are rather elaborate definitions of what constitutes a “record”, and statutory requirements as to how long they must be retained. Certainly a business letter from our Secretary to some other Secretary or someone in a commercial company would constitute a “record”, and copied and retained. For the (brief) time I worked in my local government, we certainly had to make sure we kept records of correspondence in writing. Organising that was the entirety of my job, in fact. That’s in the UK, though. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/82 "2015-03-03T22:31:29Z")
How many people have email addresses at the [clintonemail.com](http://clintonemail.com) domain that Hilary was reduced to using [hdr22@clintonemail.com](mailto:hdr22@clintonemail.com)? “Let’s try [hilary@clintonemail.com](mailto:hilary@clintonemail.com)” “Nope, that’s taken” “[hilaryclinton@clintonemail.com](mailto:hilaryclinton@clintonemail.com) then?” “Sorry, ma’am” “Hmmm, [hrc@clintonemail.com](mailto:hrc@clintonemail.com)?” “Ah, no, sorry” “Fuuuuuuu…” \ “Woot! hdr22 is available!” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/83 "2015-03-03T22:34:51Z")
Was “[nextpresident@clintonemail.com](mailto:nextpresident@clintonemail.com)” taken? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/84 "2015-03-03T22:48:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Was “[nextpresident@clintonemail.com](mailto:nextpresident@clintonemail.com)” taken? Chelsea bagged that for future use. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/85 "2015-03-03T23:12:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am, always, driven by principles. I analyze the facts of every situation by applying the principles, and the result is what the result is. > > If this were a Republican SoS, I would be saying the same thing, and (presumably) you’d be arguing or at least silently believing that my defense of the Republican was partisan, and that if a Democrat were involved I’d have a different take on it. I too, am driven by my principles. One of which is, “Never pass up the opportunity for a Star Trek joke.” Don’t take everything so seriously. It’s just the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/86 "2015-03-04T10:40:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems that the person accusing Mrs. Clinton of wrongdoing should shoulder the burden of proof. This statement seems to misunderstand the reason for such policies. The rationale itself is so we don’t place ourselves in a position where we cannot easily retrieve correspondence and so we needn’t wonder what’s occurring outside the firewall. When someone violates that policy, a reaction of “we cannot know what was done” is not an accusation of some specific bad act. It’s the self-evident point that the breach created the very circumstance the policy hoped to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/87 "2015-03-04T11:38:06Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > This statement seems to misunderstand the reason for such policies. The rationale itself is so we don’t place ourselves in a position where we cannot easily retrieve correspondence and so we needn’t wonder what’s occurring outside the firewall. When someone violates that policy, a reaction of “we cannot know what was done” is not an accusation of some specific bad act. It’s the self-evident point that the breach created the very circumstance the policy hoped to avoid. As this story explains, Mrs. Clinton ran her own e-mail server, as opposed to a Hotmail or Gmail type solution. She had a custom domain and her own e-mail server running at her home. There is no instance of any mail that cannot be retrieved from her system. In contrast, the IRS, who appeared to be compliant withNARA policies, was able to successfully claim it could not supply requested email. In other words, Mrs. Clinton has responded to all requests for mail. The IRS could not. Of the two, which complied better with the policy and its underlying rationale? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/88 "2015-03-04T11:40:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I too, am driven by my principles. One of which is, “Never pass up the opportunity for a Star Trek joke.” > > Don’t take everything so seriously. It’s just the internet. Sure, sure…until the next time I defend a Republican and commentators archly suggest it’s an obvious choice and I would’t do the same for a Democrat, with this example quickly relegated to the convenient amnesia bin. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/89 "2015-03-04T11:58:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As this story explains, Mrs. Clinton ran her own e-mail server, as opposed to a Hotmail or Gmail type solution. She had a custom domain and her own e-mail server running at her home. > > There is no instance of any mail that cannot be retrieved from her system. I was not aware of that. If that’s the case, I agree, this is a tempest in a teapot unless someone assumes something malicious on Clinton’s part. She should have used the government’s infrastructure–Caesar’s wife, and all that–but the breach seems one of form rather than substance. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/90 "2015-03-04T12:08:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As this story explains, Mrs. Clinton ran her own e-mail server, as opposed to a Hotmail or Gmail type solution. She had a custom domain and her own e-mail server running at her home. > > There is no instance of any mail that cannot be retrieved from her system. I’m not 100% clear from the story, but as I understand it the physical server itself was located in her home; at least, the article points out the greater security that would afford. This is taking it probably too far, but if she felt like nobbling it she could do that. Your cite also says that her server’s backup were commercial servers; it doesn’t say whether those were standard ones. [QUOTE=Bricker] Sure, sure…until the next time I defend a Republican and commentators archly suggest it’s an obvious choice and I would’t do the same for a Democrat, with this example quickly relegated to the convenient amnesia bin. [/QUOTE] What positions on this issue have I expressed before this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/91 "2015-03-04T14:44:09Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m not 100% clear from the story, but as I understand it the physical server itself was located in her home; at least, the article points out the greater security that would afford. This is taking it probably too far, but if she felt like nobbling it she could do that. Your cite also says that her server’s backup were commercial servers; it doesn’t say whether those were standard ones. Because journalists are not tech-savvy. The “backup” in this case refers to additional MX records with lower priority than the default MX record pointing to the main server at the Clinton home, as opposed to actual archival backup. > [@](#): > > What positions on this issue have I expressed before this thread? You, personally? None that I recall, so you may safely assume my comment did not include you. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/92 "2015-03-04T16:01:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because journalists are not tech-savvy. The “backup” in this case refers to additional MX records with lower priority than the default MX record pointing to the main server at the Clinton home, as opposed to actual archival backup. Ah, thank you. I find I retain a little concern about the server being so potentially freely tamperable with by Clinton, though. Also apparently tamperable isn’t a word. That’s even more concerning. > [@](#): > > You, personally? None that I recall, so you may safely assume my comment did not include you. Should I assume from your lack of recollection of my prior views that you have suffered from a bout of “convenient amnesia”? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/93 "2015-03-04T16:24:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because journalists are not tech-savvy. The “backup” in this case refers to additional MX records with lower priority than the default MX record pointing to the main server at the Clinton home, as opposed to actual archival backup. It may have worked that way with the “Google as a backup” configuration they did first, but their subsequent solution was MX Logic (now McAfee Saas), which provides a whole range of services involving spam, phishing, and malware filtering and a lot more. That would have to use MX redirect to interpose the Saas servers in front of the target server. It also sounds like the service can filter outbound mail, too, and optionally provide “service continuity” in the event of an outage, so if thus subscribed they would effectively be running a parallel mail server. As yet another option, Saas also provides archival storage. It’s not clear just what services Hilary subscribed to, though. If she only used them for security filtering then you’re still correct that this wouldn’t provide archival backup. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/94 "2015-03-04T16:34:23Z")
Mark me down as one who thinks this is a non issue - not at all important. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/95 "2015-03-04T17:02:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Ah, thank you. I find I retain a little concern about the server being so potentially freely tamperable with by Clinton, though. Well, your concern is your own conc… um, your own issue. I’m of the opinion that the law expresses the will of the people of the United States. In this case, Secretary Clinton, as head of her agency, was responsible for creating and applying sufficient standards for records retention. (It’s true that subsequent to her time in office, a more stringent law was proposed and passed). To paraphrase a Nixon quote, then, if the Secretary does it, it’s not a crime. > [@](#): > > Should I assume from your lack of recollection of my prior views that you have suffered from a bout of “convenient amnesia”? On the contrary – it’s INconvenient. In other words, it’s not to my benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/96 "2015-03-04T17:06:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, sure…until the next time I defend a Republican and commentators archly suggest it’s an obvious choice and I would’t do the same for a Democrat, with this example quickly relegated to the convenient amnesia bin. It’ll still be the internet, even then. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/97 "2015-03-04T17:12:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We are not worthy. > [@Miller](#): > > I too, am driven by my principles. One of which is, “Never pass up the opportunity for a Star Trek joke.” > > Don’t take everything so seriously. It’s just the internet. Touché, and touché! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/98 "2015-03-04T17:12:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’ll still be the internet, even then. Well, yes. But I assume, if I were to commit some warning-worthy offense, I could not disclaim responsibility for it by reminding you that this was the internet. I assume, in other words, that despite this being the internet, we collectively assign some value to the ideas and representations made here. Right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/99 "2015-03-04T17:25:46Z")
OK, look, how about this: I will personally nominate you for SDMB 2015 Non-partisan Homecoming Queen, even though everybody knows it will be **John Mace** again, but he _rocks_ a tiara… And seriously, _chiffon_? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092/100 "2015-03-04T17:28:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, look, how about this: I will personally nominate you for SDMB 2015 Non-partisan Homecoming Queen, even though everybody knows it will be **John Mace** again, but he _rocks_ a tiara… > > And seriously, _chiffon_? How about you just remember this conversation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hilary-clinton-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-personal-e-mail-account/714092.md?page=6)