# Hillary and Sniper Fire in Bosnia: What's the Defense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581 "2008-03-24T20:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/41 "2008-03-25T02:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] I saw no caption under her supposed “greeting ceremony” video stating the date or whether it occurred right after she stepped off the plane or whether it took place is a safer location. I’m quite sure she’s had greeting ceremonies all over the world. [/QUOTE] Okay. [This video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4) doesn’t have a caption under it. But it does have the narration of a CBS reporter who accompanied the Clintons on that trip. It describes the welcoming ceremony as being “when the plane landed.” Not at a safer location. Give up yet? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/42 "2008-03-25T02:50:44Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Lev, I feel your defense has just become [moot](http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/24/clinton-campaign-says-she-misspoke-did-not-land-under-sniper-fire/). Note. She’s not denying that she said she landed under sniper fire. She’s backing off the statement. And here the statement is. So you’re pretty much wrong here. [/QUOTE] She was in an at least partially armored military aircraft with people sitting on their flak jackets and the plane took an evasive approach to avoid potential sniper fire. Oh, wow. She’s a big fat liar. At least she flew into Bosnia, and she was a target worth taking protective security measures for. I swear, this is just like accusing her of crying or combing her hair different or using her maiden name. Y’all will stop at nothing to try and paint her in the worst light you can. Makes me want to vote for her all the more, the more of this kind of “dirt” you dig up on her. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/43 "2008-03-25T02:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] She was in an at least partially armored military aircraft with people sitting on their flak jackets and the plane took an evasive approach to avoid potential sniper fire. Oh, wow. She’s a big fat liar. At least she flew into Bosnia, and she was a target worth taking protective security measures for. I swear, this is just like accusing her of crying or combing her hair different or using her maiden name. Y’all will stop at nothing to try and paint her in the worst light you can. Makes me want to vote for her all the more, the more of this kind of “dirt” you dig up on her. [/QUOTE] Oh just stop it. She said she landed under sniper fire. She didn’t. You said she never said that there was sniper fire. She did. At least have the dignity to admit that you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/44 "2008-03-25T02:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] She was in an at least partially armored military aircraft with people sitting on their flak jackets and the plane took an evasive approach to avoid potential sniper fire. Oh, wow. She’s a big fat liar. At least she flew into Bosnia, and she was a target worth taking protective security measures for. I swear, this is just like accusing her of crying or combing her hair different or using her maiden name. Y’all will stop at nothing to try and paint her in the worst light you can. Makes me want to vote for her all the more, the more of this kind of “dirt” you dig up on her. [/QUOTE] Are you for real? i haven’t really seen you in any of the other Clinton/Obama threads so i can’t tell if you are one of the Clintonians on the board (all of which are notoriously absent from this thread, which should really tell you something), so i honestly don’t know if you are being serious or not. I don’t know if im honestly being whooshed or if you simply are so completely detached from reality that you can’t see whats right in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/45 "2008-03-25T03:02:08Z")
For crying out loud! I saw a video around here somewhere earlier and she’s smilingly strolling along with her _daughter_!!! How much danger could they have been in? She is a bald-faced liar and now that she’s been caught she’s leaving it up to her spokespeople to try to wave it away because she knows that she’ll be nailed dead to rights if she were to try to address it herself. I love modern-day technology and the internet. She and her husband have made this kind of thing standard operating procedure all their careers, and have largely gotten away with it in the past. It’s delightful to see them so often being hoist on the petard of their own dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/46 "2008-03-25T03:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Oh just stop it. She said she landed under sniper fire. She didn’t. You said she never said that there was sniper fire. She did. At least have the dignity to admit that you’re wrong. [/QUOTE] Hey, take it up with the military. If I’m in a boat paddling down the Amazon and my guides tell me to keep my feet out of the water to avoid getting eaten by crocodiles then when I retell the story I’m telling about how I avoided crocodiles. When she landed in a plane that was operating as if it were avoiding sniper fire then she was basically landing as if she were avoiding sniper fire. Please, maintain your dignity and just admit you’re grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/47 "2008-03-25T03:12:26Z")
I’ve noticed a tendency of Clinton supporters sound very Clintonian in their defenses of Clinton or accuations towards Obama. Interesting. You can attempt to twist the threat of sniper fire thing, but whether or not there was a greeting ceremony is a matter of verifiable fact. She said, clearly, that there wasn’t. There clearly was. There’s no twisting needed to call it a lie. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/48 "2008-03-25T03:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] I saw no caption under her supposed “greeting ceremony” video stating the date or whether it occurred right after she stepped off the plane or whether it took place is a safer location. I’m quite sure she’s had greeting ceremonies all over the world. [/QUOTE] Are you trying to imply that the footage we are seeing is from a different greeting ceremony? In some other country, and not in Bosnia at all? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/49 "2008-03-25T03:32:00Z")
So no sniper fire. No [reports](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html) of snipers in the hills, although there were some non-specific reports of a possible truck bomb in the area which did not disrupt her visit in any way. No running for safety. No canceled greeting ceremony. No going where it was too dangerous for Bill to go, as he had already gone there and it was at peace for three months. No diplomatic mission. But hey she did sit in an armored section of a plane that was capable of evasive action if it was needed and did visit Bosnia. So what does it matter if she made the rest of it up? And stood by it until video tape evidence of her lie turned up? It’s just what she does. It’s as truthful as the rest of her claims for experience anyway. **Lev** when I’m in an airplane I’m told to keep my seatbelt on in case we crash. So don’t blame me if I tell how I survived a fiery crash on the tarmac eh? Blame the flight attendants. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/50 "2008-03-25T04:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yeah, but isn’t Sheryl Crow a _bass_ player? I think Sinbad’s testimony may be suspect. Seriously, the best I can do for Hillary is either that she mixed it up with some other occasion (but I think _any_ occasion where the First Lady had to duck sniper fire would have gotten wallpaper coverage) or (more plausible), that the Secret Service, being as hyper cautious as they are, had heard reports that there might possibly be some chance of sniper fire at the airport, so they told Hillary they were going to scoot on inside as quickly as possible as a precaution. Hillary may have gotten an exaggerated sense of how much danger there really was and has in the intervening years built this into a bigger and bigger, more harrowing personal anecdote – something blown up for effect at cocktail parties and White House dinners and in the Senate dining room until she now actually believes she had to sprint through enemy fire like she was in _Black Hawk Down_. That’s the best I can do for her. I do think something like that is slightly more plausible than sheer, intentional fabrication, seeing as how she knows better than anybody that the media will fact check _everything_ a candidate says. These days, you better be right about how many pieces of toast you had with breakfast or you’ll get “LIAR, LIAR” headlines. She must have thought somehow, someway that she would be able to defend this story as having some factual basis. Inventing it out of wholecloth would be _stupid_, and we know she’s not stupid. [/QUOTE] I think that’s exactly right. Hillary’s too smart to just decide to come up with a good foreign-policy-credential-boosting whopper that could be easily checked. This sounds more like some time when she landed and a Secret Service member said, “please hurry, ma’am. There have been reports of sniper fire in this general area,” and the story got retold, embellished a little perhaps because you like to tell it that way, and took on a life of its own. Then she got confronted on it, and she’s been trying to figure out how to dance away from it without it doing too much damage. It’s a fish tale. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/51 "2008-03-25T04:39:47Z")
My impression of the Clintons, and most especially Mamma C. is that they are fiercely protective of Chelsea. The video shows Chelsea striding right along beside Mamma. Now I fully expect Hillary might take a risk like that for a really juicy photo op. But her daughter? Nope. No way, no day, no chance. _…smother that girl in chocolate syrup, and boogie till the cows come hoooooome…_ Sorry. Zappa moment. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/52 "2008-03-25T04:46:19Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Yes. An eyewitness. Sinbad. [/QUOTE] Or how about Maj. Gen. William Nash, the commander of U.S. troops in Bosnia? He says: > [@](#): > > [H]e was unaware of any [“sniper threat”] to Clinton during her eight-hour stay in Tuzla. He said, however, that Clinton had a “busy schedule” and may have got the impression that she was being hurried on her way. > > . . . > > there were a couple of “security concerns” that day, which he found out about **after** returning to his headquarters **after greeting Clinton at the airport.** There was a “non-specific report” of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that “some of the communications associated with the First Lady’s visit were being monitored.” > > “In both cases, we took appropriate security action,” said Nash, adding that **Clinton’s visit was not disrupted**. So he was there, **at the airport** , with the First Lady, and was never once made aware of any “sniper threat”. Her visit was in no way disrupted, and he only learned of some vague potential threat somewhere nearby that neither actually threatened the First Lady, nor caused any change in procedure upon her arrival while she listened to a poem being read with her 16 year old daughter by her side. The notion that _anyone_ could not only defend Hillary’s bold-faced lies about these events, but be incredulous that anyone could even _see_ them as lies, and proclaim that we ought to maintain our dignity, would have been beyond my imagination before this election. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/53 "2008-03-25T05:18:39Z")
Bosnia? I distinctly remember the former First Lady referring to the dangerous sniper fire in _Borneo._ There was so much sniper fire that there was no tape footage. She didn’t misspeak. The press misheard. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/54 "2008-03-25T05:35:36Z")
I saw a tape earlier today, **Zoe** , in which she was standing at a podium speaking of the Bosnian occasion and appearing to denigrate Sinbad’s description of events by reminding the questioner that he was a comedian. She then spoke of having to dash quickly to a waiting automobile and out of danger. She then, in an insistent tone, said something like “…and _that’s_ what happened.” She was clearly speaking of her arrival in Bosnia. Further, from what I’ve read she’s been repeating this same story for several months now. But, having said that…how you doin’? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/55 "2008-03-25T06:01:07Z")
This is the sort of story that gives legs to other stories: whether she really did oppose NAFTA or actually supported it for Bill; whether she really was instrumental in bringing peace to Northern Ireland or just hosted a luncheon, and so on. Before, her campaign could slough off assertions that she was inflating her resume as mere electioneering and irrelevant to the truth of what she said she’d done. Now, though, she’s been caught out in a baldfaced, repeated lie, MSMed and YouTubed for all to see. Now the narrative shifts to questioning a fundamental quality that voters want in a candidate (even those of us cynical enough not to expect a whole lot of it): honesty. Is this candidate levelling with us? Can we believe in what this candidate says? Can we trust this person? Before, Hillary could demand the benefit of the doubt, and get it from a goodly chunk of the electorate. Now her claims, all her claims of experience will ring hollow, as voters will ask themselves, if she lied so blatantly about Bosnia, what else in her qualifications is she lying about? Of course, not everyone will see this as damaging. Some Clinton supporters will find ways to excuse it as a mere “blip”, “misstatement”, whatever. Some of the electorate will dismiss it as a minor thing. Some will shrug it off as, well, whaddaya expect from a politician? But some voters – who can say how many? – will find it a dealbreaker. Just my opinion, of course; but I think this has the potential to do more harm to her than Rev. Wright has to Obama. Consider: Obama gets kneecapped by the “GD America” hysteria, and responds by giving the “More Perfect Union” speech, hailed by many, conservatives as well as liberals, as superb, historic, etc. Hillary gets shown up as a self-aggrandizing liar and… what? Gives a historic speech about… what? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/56 "2008-03-25T06:05:28Z")
About the fact that at least she didn’t stay home and bake cookies? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/57 "2008-03-25T06:58:36Z")
Hey, **Starvin’, Darlin’**! I’m good. How you? I’m just kidding about Borneo. I used to be righteously beaten with a peach tree limb for “blips” and “misspeaking” when I was a kid. The preacher called it _bearing false witness._ ---
**Author:** ![Ocelot1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/258eb7/32.png) [@Ocelot1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocelot1)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/58 "2008-03-25T07:32:23Z")
It was 12 years ago and this is the way she remembers it. Given that she has landed a great number of times all over the place, she could be confusing two events. I hardly remember what I was doing 12 years ago and even if I did they might be a bit scewed in my head + if its a good story it might have gotten a bit embellished over the decade +. This is hardly fighting ignorance. Debating this over time might even be adding ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/59 "2008-03-25T07:56:51Z")
I know guys who served in combat. I don’t know any of them who cannot remember when they dodged sniper fire. When folks shoot at you, you remember it! Seems to me if I was President of the United States, and the Secret Service took my wife somewhere where she had to dodge sniper fire, I would fire me a whole lot of Secret Service guys. Not the ones who dodged sniper fire with my wife, mind you, but the guys who planned the trip would be looking for new careers. No, sorry, no First Lady dodging sniper fire, and the fact not making the evening news. Just talking about the First Lady dodging sniper fire makes the evening news. The actual event might just have been written up, here or there. It’s not a very good lie, but it is an even worse truth. What the fuck was on her mind? Getting your ass shot at is not what I think of as “Executive Office Experience.” Tris ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581/60 "2008-03-25T07:57:19Z")
[QUOTE=Ocelot1] It was 12 years ago and this is the way she remembers it. Given that she has landed a great number of times all over the place, she could be confusing two events. I hardly remember what I was doing 12 years ago and even if I did they might be a bit scewed in my head + if its a good story it might have gotten a bit embellished over the decade +. [/quote] And it was completely coincidental that the story she told made Hillary look good? And it is not possible that she is capable of being dishonest, like everybody else? > [@](#): > > This is hardly fighting ignorance. Debating this over time might even be adding ignorance. Is it possible that you are being defensive? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-and-sniper-fire-in-bosnia-whats-the-defense/442581.md?page=4)