# Hillary can't be Secretary of State? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485 "2008-11-25T21:52:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/21 "2008-11-26T15:00:54Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > It’s a minor thing, and I agree that the salary reduction addresses the spirit of the law, but I still don’t like it. I don’t think the words of the Constitution are something that should be that easy to get around. > > If the Constitution says she can’t serve then either she shouldn’t serve or an amendment should be passed. I disagree. That clause is probably intended to avoid conflicts of interest and greed, and none exists here. If Obama thinks Hillary is the best available Secretary of State, why should he be forced to choose someone else because of a 4 percent raise that Clinton did not think was going to apply to her? I think a workaround is perfectly acceptable and sensible here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/22 "2008-11-26T16:37:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I disagree. That clause is probably intended to avoid conflicts of interest and greed, and none exists here. If Obama thinks Hillary is the best available Secretary of State, why should he be forced to choose someone else because of a 4 percent raise that Clinton did not think was going to apply to her? I think a workaround is perfectly acceptable and sensible here. Why? Because the constitution clearly states it is not to be done. If you don’t like that, and if we think it’s wrong, then it should be easy to pass an amendment to correct it. Of course, the constitution does say “he”, and Hillary is a “she”, so maybe there is a workaround… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/23 "2008-11-26T16:38:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If Obama thinks Hillary is the best available Secretary of State, why should he be forced to choose someone else because of a 4 percent raise that Clinton did not think was going to apply to her? Because the Constitution explicitly says that he has to. Constitutional barriers should be more than a mild inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/24 "2008-11-26T16:40:40Z")
If we’re going by a strict reading of the words of the constitution, that clause says…No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected,… Hillary Clinton is not a he so it clearly doesn’t apply to her. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/25 "2008-11-26T16:42:08Z")
Not a lawyer but it seems that if she is appointed to the office as it existed at the beginning of her current senate term (same responsibilty, old salary), it isn’t really violating anything. That is, I’ve heard much less twisted logic accepted as correct legal interpretation. Was there a vote to increase the salary or is the salary just increasing as part of a CPI change? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/26 "2008-11-26T16:51:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > So, who will be the first to call for Obama’s impeachment for violating the Constitution? Ooh! Me! Me first! Let’s ride him out of town on a rail! Throw the rascals out of Washington! YARRR! 24 replies and nobody else said it. w00t! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/27 "2008-11-26T18:23:24Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Was there a vote to increase the salary or is the salary just increasing as part of a CPI change? There was a vote, and she voted yes. It is her yes vote that caused this Constitutional crisis. There truly is no limit upon Clinton drama. Bill and Hillary are the binary black holes of human comedy and tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/28 "2008-11-26T18:27:13Z")
Actually, there is no Constitutional crisis until Obama sends her nomination to the Senate. (Even then there may be no crisis if they simply refrain from giving Consent based on a probable conflict with the Constitution.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/29 "2008-11-26T18:29:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > There was a vote, and she voted yes. It is her yes vote that caused this Constitutional crisis. I don’t think anyone in this thread is calling it a “crisis”. It’s a clear violation of the plain text of the constitution (AFAICT), but is easily correctable. We should correct the situation instead of allowing a violation to stand. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/30 "2008-11-26T18:30:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > There was a vote, and she voted yes. I’ve been trying to find the date of the vote. Do you happen to have it? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/31 "2008-11-26T18:39:48Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’ve been trying to find the date of the vote. Do you happen to have it? It wasn’t a vote, it was an [Execuctive Order](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html) by the President. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/32 "2008-11-26T18:43:57Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > It wasn’t a vote, it was an [Execuctive Order](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html) by the President. The order cites a specific law for each pay schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/33 "2008-11-26T18:45:36Z")
Ah, interesting. So the issue isn’t that Clinton is involved in raising the salary, it’s that she was a Senator while the change was made. Interesting. I don’t understand the reasoning behind that rule and I still think it should be possible to work around it. [Here’s the specific order](http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/indexSES.asp)- look under the first heading, for the Executive. I don’t see a law here, as opposed to an executive order, but maybe I’m not familiar enough with the language used in these types of things. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/34 "2008-11-26T18:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > There was a vote, and she voted yes. It is her yes vote that caused this Constitutional crisis. > > There truly is no limit upon Clinton drama. Bill and Hillary are the binary black holes of human comedy and tragedy. Yes, in their ongoing quest to destroy America, Hillary Clinton voted for a law that tied state department salaries to the cost-of-living index. Pure evil. Is there no depth to which those Clintons won’t sink? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/35 "2008-11-26T18:50:47Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > It wasn’t a vote, it was an [Execuctive Order](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html) by the President. Supposedly, it doesn’t matter. There is nothing in the constitution about a vote. [Link.](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/19/hillary_clintons_fix.html)Also: > [@](#): > > But Democrats in the past have inveighed against this sleight-of-hand. In the Saxbe case, 10 senators, all Democrats, voted against the ploy on constitutional grounds. Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.), the only one of them who remains in the Senate, said at the time that the Constitution was explicit and “we should not delude the American people into thinking a way can be found around the constitutional obstacle.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/36 "2008-11-26T18:50:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ah, interesting. So the issue isn’t that Clinton is involved in raising the salary, it’s that she was a Senator while the change was made. The reason I’d like to find the date of the vote is that if it was during her first term, I think she’s OK. “during the time for which he was elected,” seems to cover that. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/37 "2008-11-26T18:52:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Supposedly, it doesn’t matter. There is nothing in the constitution about a vote. [Link.](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/19/hillary_clintons_fix.html)Also: Oh, I realize that. Just trying to help out Frank with his inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/38 "2008-11-26T18:54:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The reason I’d like to find the date of the vote is that if it was during her first term, I think she’s OK. “during the time for which he was elected,” seems to cover that. If the relevant law is [5 U.S.C. 5312 5318](http://www.opm.gov/oca/COMPMEMO/2003/extmemo.asp), the law in question appears to have been passed in November 2003, during her previous term. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/39 "2008-11-26T18:58:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Supposedly, it doesn’t matter. There is nothing in the constitution about a vote. I think that’s obviously an oversight. The point of it would be to prevent a Representative or Senator from creating a cushy and/or well-paid job for themselves - to prevent corruption, in other words. Otherwise, what is to stop an outgoing President from increasing all salaries by $1 a year on January 19th, thereby preventing all current Congressmen from going to a job in the new administration? But, yes, the plain words agree with you, despite my attempt at creating a penumbra. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485/40 "2008-11-26T19:02:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If the relevant law is [5 U.S.C. 5312 5318](http://www.opm.gov/oca/COMPMEMO/2003/extmemo.asp), the law in question appears to have been passed in November 2003, during her previous term. OK, well, that takes care of that, in my opinion anyway. I think the language is clear that the appointment cannot take place during the term in which such a law was passed. Since she’s been reelected since then, she can be appointed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-cant-be-secretary-of-state/474485.md?page=3)