# Hillary Clinton supporters switching to McCain/Palin -- why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335 "2008-09-19T17:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/21 "2008-09-19T19:21:25Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > 1. While politically closer to McCain, they voted for Clinton in the primaries because they want to see a female president. When Obama won the Democratic nomination, they reverted to a more Republican voting pattern. I think it’s a combination of the above with a dash of (2) and (10) They are having an irrational response to their candidate losing in the primaries, and want to do \*something \*in “retaliation” (against Obama/the media/the Democratic party/etc) even if it goes against their interests and long-held beliefs. (i.e. some women are doing it for reason (5), some for reason (2) and some for reason (10)) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/22 "2008-09-19T19:29:36Z")
1. They want Obama to lose so that Hillary can take another shot in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/23 "2008-09-19T19:43:38Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Oh come on Shodan, 8 years as co-president as being more experience than Obama or Biden? Well, Obama will need someone to tell him where the good bathroom is in the white house is I suppose. I was thinking (or perhaps, the Hilary-to-McCain switchers were thinking) more about the major health care legislation that Hilary submitted during her stint as the only woman in DC that Bill wasn’t schtupping. So again, even before she made it to the Senate, she had more national experience than Obama does now. But the progression for executive experience is [ol][li]McCain[_]Hilary (if being co-President counts)[_]Palin[\*]a two-way tie between Obama and Biden[/ol][/li] So the switch makes sense. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/24 "2008-09-19T19:47:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was thinking (or perhaps, the Hilary-to-McCain switchers were thinking) more about the major health care legislation that Hilary submitted during her stint as the only woman in DC that Bill wasn’t schtupping. So again, even before she made it to the Senate, she had more national experience than Obama does now. > > But the progression for executive experience is [ol][li]McCain[_]Hilary (if being co-President counts)[_]Palin[\*]a two-way tie between Obama and Biden[/ol][/li] > So the switch makes sense. > > Regards, > Shodan What’s McCain’s executive experience again? And if you say crashing his plane in Viet Nam, just go ahead and guess again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/25 "2008-09-19T19:47:46Z")
Incorrect. The correct order is Biden, McCain, Obama, Clinton long drop Palin. The word “executive” is an absolutely meaningless, bullshit qualification. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/26 "2008-09-19T21:40:12Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > What’s McCain’s executive experience again? And if you say crashing his plane in Viet Nam, just go ahead and guess again. No, when he was leader of his squadron, and turned their evaluation around 180 degrees. This was after his incredibly courageous leadership in Viet Nam. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/27 "2008-09-19T21:47:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If they cared about experience, they wouldn’t support Palin. > > I think that racism is obviously a large factor, especially among older voters, and it would be ridiculous to deny it. > I think it’s an increasingly shrinking group, though. I think that most of those on the internet who claim to be “converted” Hillary supporters are Republican moles prowing message boards and comment sections hoping to create an impression of a movement. True. Of the 4, Biden leads, then McCain, then Obama, with Palin being last. I deny it. I think it will be hard to find any significant number of voters who would vote for a white Candidate with Obama’s platform but not Obama. No doubt we still have racists, but not many are Liberal Democrats. And of course, if the Dems keep saying that Obama will lose the election due to racism, it will come true. I agree. Of course, that wouldn’t affect polling numbers much. There’s no doubt there are a few single issue votes on any issue. Trick is to find some who are single issue that would have voted for your candidate otherwise. For example I know a few single issue anti-gun law voters. They are likely excited to see Palin on the ticket. However, they’d have voted GoP otherwise, anyway. What’s the chance we’d get a loudly pro-gun Dem on the ticket? (Sure, Bill was moderate on that issue) That being said, I have little doubt there really are a few feminists who _really_ want to see a woman in the White House, _and_ who would have voted for the Dem ticket otherwise. But if that number is even 1% of the voters I’d be shocked. And, I will not condemn them, either. It _is_ about time, but then again it’s about time for a minority to sit in the Oval Office, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/28 "2008-09-19T21:50:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incorrect. The correct order is Biden, McCain, Obama, Clinton …long drop…Palin. > > . Umm- Obama- 3 years as Senator, Clinton 7. Otherwise, we agree. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/29 "2008-09-19T21:53:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm- Obama- 3 years as Senator, Clinton 7. Otherwise, we agree. Obama spent 7 years in the Illinois Senate before he became Illinois’ Senator in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/30 "2008-09-19T22:03:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Obama spent 7 years in the Illinois Senate before he became Illinois’ Senator in Congress. Oh give it up, that doesn’t count! That’s _almost_ as bad as being a \<\\> community organizer. He did absolutely nothing for 7 years in the Illinois Legislature. Nothing. Just ask Nancy Pfotenhauer. And if you don’t believe her, just ask Tony Rezko or William Ayers or Jeremiah Wright. Traitor! ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/31 "2008-09-19T22:04:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, when he was leader of his squadron, and turned their evaluation around 180 degrees. This was after his incredibly courageous leadership in Viet Nam. > > Regards, > Shodan So I guess being a community organizer, editor of Harvard Law Review (first black one at that) etc don’t count? This is Obama, fresh out of lawschool: > [@](#): > > During his three years as the DCP’s director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants’ rights organization in Altgeld Gardens. This is much derided experience as a community organizer. Maybe it’s not too much now but it’s still something. So what else has McCain done besides “turning his squadron around?” His leadership in Vienam? What he did was laudable, but I don’t call it leadership necessarily. The fact that you place Palin above Biden and Obama really hurts your case, **Shodan**. It’s so clearly not true. You seem like you’re regurgitating Republican talking points. If you want to support McCain for whatever reason, fine, but at least don’t try to justify it by spouting bullshit like this here. Obama is running a national campaign for President. Palin has never done such a thing. Do you honestly believe the things you write here? Because if so it seems like you’re really going out of the way to not count Obama’s relevant experience. Your list seems to discredit anything done as an elected politician, and yet you also seem to discredit Obama’s other experience done after he started his campaign and before he got into elected politics. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/32 "2008-09-19T22:07:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, when he was leader of his squadron, and turned their evaluation around 180 degrees. This was after his incredibly courageous leadership in Viet Nam. You’re actually shouting “POW”? Seriously? Not as a Democratic mole? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/33 "2008-09-19T22:08:30Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > The fact that you place Palin above Biden and Obama really hurts your case, **Shodan**. It’s so clearly not true. You seem like you’re regurgitating Republican talking points. Have you never encountered a **Shodan** post before? ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/34 "2008-09-19T22:13:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Have you never encountered a **Shodan** post before? Oh of course I have… It just seems so silly that he can be so impervious to logic. You know, I don’t ask that he vote for Obama or anything. All I ask is that he not be a complete automaton for the Republican party. It’s fun to debate with Republicans who actually will concede points while maintaining their philosophy is sound. Surely there must be a person in there, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/35 "2008-09-19T22:25:33Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > So what else has McCain done besides “turning his squadron around?” His leadership in Vienam? . wiki= \*Elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1982, he served two terms, and was then elected to the U.S. Senate in 1986, winning re-election easily in 1992, 1998, and 2004. \* Which is why I place him ahead of Obama, but below Biden. Biden is likely the most experienced person who is legally qualified for Prez. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/36 "2008-09-19T22:27:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was thinking (or perhaps, the Hilary-to-McCain switchers were thinking) more about the major health care legislation that Hilary submitted during her stint … (gratuitous slur against Bill Clinton deleted). > So the switch makes sense. > > Regards, > Shodan The switch might make sense, but not based on this ridiculous argument. Hillary didn’t push the health care legislation for eight years. Edit: Timeline - [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health\_debate\_page2.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/37 "2008-09-20T01:12:57Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > So I guess being a community organizer, editor of Harvard Law Review (first black one at that) etc don’t count? For leadership experience? Obviously not. To paraphrase Jesse Jackson, Obama hasn’t run anything but his mouth. > [@](#): > > So what else has McCain done besides “turning his squadron around?” His leadership in Vienam? What he did was laudable, but I don’t call it leadership necessarily. Right, right - maintaining leadership of a bunch of people under torture and death is nothing compared to the stress of editing an Ivy League law journal. Especially with the added stress of being black. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/38 "2008-09-20T01:22:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For leadership experience? Obviously not. Obvious how? Community organizer suggests being in charge. Editors _are_ in charge. It’s pure management experience. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/39 "2008-09-20T02:50:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For leadership experience? Obviously not. > > To paraphrase Jesse Jackson, Obama hasn’t run anything but his mouth. Funny how Hillary and Jesse become the noble friends of the right when quoting them allows you to attack the biggest threat to your political success. > [@](#): > > Right, right - maintaining leadership of a bunch of people under torture and death While noble, how does this sort of “leadership” translate to the world outside prison? And how is this “executive experience,” as you earlier claimed? You never answered that, **Sho.** > [@](#): > > is nothing compared to the stress of editing an Ivy League law journal. What the fuck does the level of job stress have to do with being qualifed for the presidency? > [@](#): > > Especially with the added stress of being black. So it all boils down to this. Why are the only people making Obama’s race an issue this election the right wingers? Are you guys \*that \*scared of being beat by one of “those?” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335/40 "2008-09-20T02:59:07Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Are you guys \*that \*scared of being beat by one of “those?” Yes, yes they are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-supporters-switching-to-mccain-palin-why/464335.md?page=3)