# Hillary Clinton VP choice **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511 "2015-11-25T04:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/101 "2015-12-01T00:50:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’d prefer all the Confederate flags on public grounds go down Jim Webb agrees. He said “it [does] not belong in public places,” and the SC one has “long been due to come down.” As I understand it, he just feels that there is not one simple message represented by the flag, and he prefers that we look back on the history of the Confederacy and the War in a more nuanced way. Also, even if one disagrees with him, it is grossly unfair to call it “pandering,” as upthread. As far as I can tell, his views have remained consistent, being established before the flag ‘issue’ was a political thing, and being maintained through times when the easier political course would have been to reverse himself. > [@Frank](#): > > You really think that the supporting the display of a racist symbol by a local, state, or federal government of the United States is unimportant to your view of a candidate? No. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/102 "2015-12-01T00:58:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t see it like that – flags aren’t that important. But seeing it the way Webb does shows an incredible ignorance of history, or an incredible disinterest in the legitimate concerns of black people. Both are pretty close to deal-breakers, and would be if the Republican candidates weren’t so much worse. Sure. If there wasn’t a whole other party that was taking terrible positions on issues that would actually make life worse for almost everyone in the country, then we could make decisions based on purely symbolic issues. > [@Frank](#): > > **Qin Shi Huangdi** has stated that it’s not even in the top hundred of his concerns. You’ve only listed five. He also said he was being hyperbolic there, and then you got on his case for saying it wasn’t that important in the grander scheme of things. That’s what I’m responding to. > [@](#): > > Frankly, of the five you did list, the removal of racist symbols on government grounds in the United States would rank #2, behind only climate change. You think that incarceration reform is more important than removing the symbols that _caused_ the need for incarceration reform? You’re thinking backwards. Strongly disagree. Incarceration reform will have actual, material impact on the lives of many real-life black people. Removing all the confederate flags from every public grounds in the US, which is not an issue on which a VP would have any say, would be a great symbolic victory, and would probably indicate favorable improvements to the underlying culture, but would not have material impact on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/103 "2015-12-01T01:03:08Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Sure. If there wasn’t a whole other party that was taking terrible positions on issues that would actually make life worse for almost everyone in the country, then we could make decisions based on purely symbolic issues. > > He also said he was being hyperbolic there, and then you got on his case for saying it wasn’t that important in the grander scheme of things. That’s what I’m responding to. > > Strongly disagree. Incarceration reform will have actual, material impact on the lives of many real-life black people. Removing all the confederate flags from every public grounds in the US, which is not an issue on which a VP would have any say, would be a great symbolic victory, and would probably indicate favorable improvements to the underlying culture, but would not have material impact on anyone. This is all fine, and Webb is better than the Republicans. But in my opinion, he’s way worse than all the other Democratic options, and I hope he’s not picked as veep. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/104 "2015-12-01T01:50:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is all fine, and Webb is better than the Republicans. But in my opinion, he’s way worse than all the other Democratic options, and I hope he’s not picked as veep. Oh, I agree with that. Just not because of the confederate flag issue. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/105 "2015-12-01T02:47:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You can’t be fucking serious. You can’t be. You cannot be serious. > > You really think that the supporting the display of a racist symbol by a local, state, or federal government of the United States is unimportant to your view of a candidate? > > Welcome back, General Lemay. > [@Frank](#): > > **Qin Shi Huangdi** has stated that it’s not even in the top hundred of his concerns. You’ve only listed five. I could list some more: infrastructure, minimum wage, “right to work” laws, police body cameras, marijuana legalization, Social Security-literally any issue you can think of is probably more important. > [@](#): > > Frankly, of the five you did list, the removal of racist symbols on government grounds in the United States would rank #2, behind only climate change. You think that incarceration reform is more important than removing the symbols that _caused_ the need for incarceration reform? You’re thinking backwards. As **Do Not Taunt** pointed out that’s absurd considering incarceration actually directly affects people while the Confederate flag does not. You are confusing the symbol of structural racism with the causes of structural racism itself. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/106 "2015-12-01T02:51:24Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > As **Do Not Taunt** pointed out that’s absurd considering incarceration actually directly affects people while the Confederate flag does not. Also considering that, as someone pointed out, Webb does not actually hold the position **Frank** ascribes to him. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/107 "2015-12-01T03:49:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Who is this “DINO Congressman” if this isn’t too personal a question? At any rate, Jim Webb agrees with something like 80-85% of the Democratic platform, excepting a few issues where he dissents more due to his cultural and geographic background as a Scotch-Irish Appalachian military man. Ami Bera. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/108 "2015-12-01T14:26:20Z")
Black Georgetown professor and author Michael Eric Dyson claims [Hillary will be better for blacks](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/black-scholar-hillary-better-for-blacks-than-bill-clinton-or-obama/article/2577269) than Bubba or Barack. > [@](#): > > “In the weird, paradoxical politics of American race, Bill Clinton had greater permission to be black in public than Barack Obama, which is another way of saying it cost Obama far more political capital to revel in race the way Clinton did. No matter the cause, the effect of Obama’s limited ability to maneuver inside the perilous parameters of race means that an even more punishing paradox looms: A white woman shattering the barrier of gender may carry the baton of racial engagement further than he ever could, or did, or was willing to fight to do.” IOW her picking a black running mate could be seen more as pandering than outreach. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Futurist110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futurist110)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/109 "2015-12-02T01:08:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is all fine, and Webb is better than the Republicans. But in my opinion, he’s way worse than all the other Democratic options, and I hope he’s not picked as veep. Isn’t Webb too old to be picked as VP (especially for a 69-year-old Hillary Clinton), though? ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/110 "2015-12-02T01:37:29Z")
> [@Futurist110](#): > > Isn’t Webb too old to be picked as VP (especially for a 69-year-old Hillary Clinton), though? She can do a reinforcement of her age, like her husband did in 1992. An 44-year old Clinton and a 45-year old Gore showed the 1990’s that youth can make it to the White House. Hillary may pick an older vice presidential running mate to show that experience may matter heading into the 2020’s. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Futurist110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futurist110)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/111 "2015-12-02T01:42:07Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > She can do a reinforcement of her age, like her husband did in 1992. An 44-year old Clinton and a 45-year old Gore showed the 1990’s that youth can make it to the White House. Hillary may pick an older vice presidential running mate to show that experience may matter heading into the 2020’s. Fair enough, I suppose. After all, two old, moderate, East Coast Democrats can certainly complement each other. 🙂 Of course, if Bill Clinton and Al Gore were Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, then who exactly would Hillary Clinton and Jim Webb be? Any thoughts on this? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/112 "2015-12-02T03:09:15Z")
> [@Futurist110](#): > > Of course, if Bill Clinton and Al Gore were Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, then who exactly would Hillary Clinton and Jim Webb be? Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/113 "2015-12-03T02:40:13Z")
There’s no need to pick Jim Webb. Wes Clark is close to the Clintons and gives all the same advantages that Webb does, except he’s more of a team player. Webb would please some conservative Democrats while irritating a lot of liberals. Whereas if Gen. Clark was named the VP nominee, I think most Democrats of all ideological stripes would say, “OKay, I can get behind that.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/114 "2015-12-03T03:03:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s no need to pick Jim Webb. Wes Clark is close to the Clintons and gives all the same advantages that Webb does In Virginia? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/115 "2015-12-03T03:06:16Z")
If they want Virginia they’ve got three governors to choose from: Terry Mac, who is closest to the Clintons, Kaine, or Warner. Webb is a maverick and he is most definitely not going to stay on message. He’s too honest for that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/116 "2015-12-03T03:21:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they want Virginia they’ve got three governors to choose from: Terry Mac, who is closest to the Clintons, Kaine, or Warner. …none of whom served a day in uniform, which is where I thought you were going with that bit about how Clark _“gives all the same advantages that Webb does.”_ ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/117 "2015-12-03T03:26:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s no need to pick Jim Webb. Wes Clark is close to the Clintons and gives all the same advantages that Webb does, except he’s more of a team player. Webb would please some conservative Democrats while irritating a lot of liberals. Whereas if Gen. Clark was named the VP nominee, I think most Democrats of all ideological stripes would say, “OKay, I can get behind that.” You may be right. Webb is an independent maverick, and he may be unpredictable on the campaign trail. But she may need that. She may need some maverick appeal. True. A Clinton/Clark ticket would be a formidable ticket. I could vote for that ticket, since I am an Independent. I can see her picking former Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen, a Southern Democrat, if she wants to expand the South for the Electoral College. > **[Tennessee gov’s plan to unite Dems](https://www.nydailynews.com/2008/03/31/tennessee-govs-plan-to-unite-dems/)** > > WASHINGTON – Tennessee’s Democratic Gov. Phil Bredesen went to bat Sunday for his plan to prevent Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama from tearing the party apart in their nasty tussle for… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/118 "2015-12-03T03:27:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …none of whom served a day in uniform, which is where I thought you were going with that bit about how Clark _“gives all the same advantages that Webb does.”_ Nationally he does. But yes, Webb does add more in Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/119 "2015-12-03T03:29:46Z")
> [@GloryDays](#): > > You may be right. Webb is an independent maverick, and he may be unpredictable on the campaign trail. But she may need that. She may need some maverick appeal. True. A Clinton/Clark ticket would be a formidable ticket. I could vote for that ticket, since I am an Independent. I can see her picking former Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen, a Southern Democrat, if she wants to expand the South for the Electoral College. > > [Tennessee gov’s plan to unite Dems – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/tennessee-gov-plan-unite-dems-article-1.286879) Bredesen is someone who should have run for President, but he’s a bit of a geezer now. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511/120 "2015-12-03T04:43:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Bredesen is someone who should have run for President, but he’s a bit of a geezer now. Yea, Gov. Bredesen is a bit of a geezer. He can help with Independent voters. I can see Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear being vetted for vice president. He may not add Kentucky to the Democratic Party ticket, but he could help in the South. Beshear is a moderate Southern Democrat. Another Democrat could be New Mexico Sen. Martin Heinrich. Young. He can appeal to the youth and the millennial vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clinton-vp-choice/738511.md?page=7)