# Hillary Clinton's "Love and Kindness" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 29, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468 "2016-02-29T01:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/21 "2016-02-29T18:37:41Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > I don’t know which ‘one’ you have in mind - I personally wouldn’t expect Secret Service agents to talk about their private interactions with their protectees at all, ever, even to refute false statements. I wouldn’t either, if they’re on active duty. But I’m sure plenty of agents have retired since the Clintons were in the White House or Hillary’s last campaign for president and I don’t see any reason why they’d feel compelled to remain silent in the face of defamatory statements made about Hillary Clinton, if she was in fact nice and pleasant and respectful toward them in their interactions with her. You’d think if that was the case many of them would be coming to her defense, even if only to dispute the allegation that Hillary-duty was considered a form of punishment and the worse assignment they could get (i.e., the last one - as it was last example I quoted), yet none seem willing to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/22 "2016-02-29T20:06:26Z")
I don’t think Clinton is anymore calculating than the next politician. But I do think she is trying to inject a personal held belief about Love and Kindness. I’ve always felt there has been a sort of insidious systemic smear of her ever since she wasn’t going to be “Tammy Wynette, standing by her man baking cookies in the kitchen” That line drew the ire of a helluva lot of women and men back in the nineties when Bill first ran for President. Here was this brilliant legal mind trying to grapple with the wifely duties of “first lady” and also be a voice for those without a voice is one of those age old questions career women have had to face for decades. Then after a a huge battle royale for the nomination in 2008, Clinton was again faced with a career choice that if she took it would go a long way to not only secure the country, but heal the wounds within the party itself. It was more than a grand gesture, to offer and accept the job, it was a unification of the party. The party faithful know this and are loyal to her. That’s why she has over 400 endorsements from Congress. All of this fighting and uniting obviously made Clinton a better candidate this time around. And a more introspective person. When Anderson Cooper asked her about her integrity, the question that seems to come up all the time like a Karl Rove dog whistle, I really loved what she had to say because I really never heard it from her before but it was relatable and powerful : > [@](#): > > "I think about this a lot. Um, I feel very fortunate that I am a person of faith, that I was raised in my church and that I have had to deal and struggle with a lot of these issues about ambition and humility, about service and self-gratification, all of the human questions that all of us deal with, but when you put yourself out into the public arena, I think it’s incumbent upon you to be as self- conscious as possible. > > This is hard for me. You know, I never thought I’d be standing on a stage here asking people to vote for me for president. I always wanted to be of service. I met my husband, who was such a natural, knew exactly what he wanted to do. I was happy to support him while I worked in the Children’s Defense Fund and legal services and taught law, and, you know, had our daughter. > > I never thought I would do this. And so I have had to come to grips with how much more difficult it often is for me to talk about myself than to talk about what I want to do for other people, or to tell stories about, you know, the man I met in Rochester who — whose AIDS medicine is no longer affordable. And that — that can grip me and make me feel like there’s something I can do about that. > > So I’m constantly trying to balance how do I assume the mantle of a position as essentially august as president of the United States not lose track of who I am, what I believe in and what I want to do to serve? > > I have that dialogue at least, you know, once a day in some setting or another. And I don’t know that there is any ever absolute answer, like, okay, universe, here I am, watch me roar or oh my gosh, I can’t do it, it’s just overwhelming, I have to retreat. > > It’s that balance that I keep to try to find in my life that I want to see back in our country. And it will be something that I continue to talk about with a — you know, with a group of faith advisers who are close to me. I get a scripture lesson every morning from a minister that I have a really close personal relationship with. And, you know, it just gets me grounded. He gets up really early to send it to me. So, you know, there it is in my in box at 5:00 a.m… > > I have friends who are rabbis who send me notes, give me readings that are going to be discussed in services. So I really appreciate all that incoming. > > And the final thing I would say, because again, it’s not anything I’ve ever talked about this much publicly, everybody knows I — I have lived a very public life for the last 25 or so years. And so I’ve had to be in public dealing with some very difficult issues and personal issues, political, public issues. And I read a, um, a treatment of the prodigal son parable by the Jesuit Henri Nouwen, who I think is a magnificent writer of spiritual and theological concerns. And I — I read that parable and there was a line in it that became just a lifeline for me. And it basically is practice the discipline of gratitude. > > So regardless of how hard the days are, how difficult the decisions are, be grateful. Be grateful for being a human being, being part of the universe. Be grateful for your limitations. Know that you have to reach out to have more people be with you, to support you, to advise you, listen to your critics, answer the questions. > > But at the end, be grateful. Practice the discipline of gratitude. And that has helped me enormously." ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/23 "2016-02-29T21:13:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, if Kessler’s known to be right wing in his politics, that would certainly explain Hillary’s “Fuck you!” to his sunny Good Morning. I thought the allegation was that she’d said it to a Secret Service agent, and not directly to Kessler himself? > [@](#): > > One would think that if Kessler were lying, any number of Secret Service agents either retired or active would come forward to dispute them, and especially the last one, which seems to me to be the most easily refuted of all were it not true. I’d absolutely not expect that, and I’d be surprised if the agency didn’t have some sort of mechanism to prevent it or punish retired agents who go public with gossip about their charges. For a security detail to work, the person being protected needs to trust the discretion of their security personnel. That can’t happen if there’s a real chance that a retired agent will write a tell-all. If a politician has to worry about that, then they’re going to at least occasionally act in ways that subvert their own security protocols, so there’s no danger of an agent seeing them cheat on a spouse, or kick a puppy, or say what they _really_ think of that foreign head of state - and then later tell the entire world about it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/24 "2016-02-29T21:22:40Z")
I have it on good authority that Trump once laid his cloak over a mud puddle to prevent a lady from getting her feet wet, and Hillary ordered her coachman to swerve the landau across their path and splash them both. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/25 "2016-02-29T21:51:03Z")
The attacks on Clinton mirror her attempts to defend herself. Its like what the GOP calls Obama, he’s either super calculatingly evil, or incompetent. There need not be one narrative to stick to. If Clinton is being too strong, call her cold and callous. If she defends herself, call her weak and soft. It will go on and on, she will be accused of being too much of whatever she is, and not enough of whatever she isn’t, and vice versa, then repeat ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/26 "2016-02-29T22:22:29Z")
As a younger voter, I’ve found it slightly disconcerting because there are a lot of people, here and in real life who characterize Hillary as cold and robotic and I’ve consistently thought her attitude at debates and forums was very warm and human. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/27 "2016-02-29T22:26:46Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > As a younger voter, I’ve found it slightly disconcerting because there are a lot of people, here and in real life who characterize Hillary as cold and robotic and I’ve consistently thought her attitude at debates and forums was very warm and human. Is it possible some of these comments are based on her history of serving in government and the private sector and not campaign performances? You know, there’s a saying about some guy who was kind to dogs. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/28 "2016-02-29T22:34:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How was it that Newt Gingrich described HRC to his mother? Oh, yeah…“She’s a bitch!” > > And then we have this from a member of the Secret Service in an article entitled _[Secret Service agents: Hillary is a nightmare to work with](http://nypost.com/2015/10/02/secret-service-agents-hillary-is-a-nightmare-to-work-with/):_ > > And also this: > > Hillary’s so-called Love and Kindness routine is a deliberate and phony construction intended to make her appear the opposite of the way the left portrays Donald Trump. My sister’s company has published a memoir by former White House Chef John Moeller, who cooked for the Clintons personally, and put together massive state dinners. I’ve met him twice and we’ve talked about various things. In those conversations and in the book, he never hinted at any behavior of the sort described above. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/29 "2016-02-29T22:37:59Z")
My mother served with her on a foundation board in the 1980s and liked her a lot back then. But my mother is very left wing and has joined the Bernhead camp at this point and feels that Hillary has become compromised somehow since she knew her. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/30 "2016-02-29T22:42:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > And surely you don’t want to argue that the center of a news story that nobody has heard of is going to affect the Tuesday’s outcome. That doesn’t mean she’s not sincere, just that she lacks influence. Though in some ways that might be a good thing, given her ties to certain Indian Islamophobic parties. You’re pivoting to the “electability” claim again, a claim supported by no polls. The point is that her own party is cracking up, despite the best efforts of her and Sanders to maintain a civil alliance. And that is due to her deficiencies, her track record. Not only is she a deeply compromised politician who would embarrass the party if elected, let alone if she were nominated to lose to Trump. She _was a bad SecState._ She’s not the “love and kindness” candidate, she’s a reckless hawk who evokes the foreign policy mistakes of LBJ/Nixon, when she would do better to follow their domestic agenda. Puff pieces are just propaganda, that’s what I am mocking. I don’t think it’s out of line to throw a little cold water on this ridiculous thread. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/31 "2016-02-29T22:46:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Is it possible some of these comments are based on her history of serving in government and the private sector and not campaign performances? > > You know, there’s a saying about some guy who was kind to dogs. When comments make substantive allegations, I try to evaluate the evaluations as well as I can. But I think there is a narrative about Hillary that even the left buys into that appears, at least to me, to be rather unsubstantiated. Everyone just knows. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/32 "2016-02-29T22:51:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m sure plenty of agents have retired since the Clintons were in the White House or Hillary’s last campaign for president and I don’t see any reason why they’d feel compelled to remain silent in the face of defamatory statements made about Hillary Clinton, if she was in fact nice and pleasant and respectful toward them in their interactions with her. Do you see any reason they might instead stay anonymous rather than take the money and appear on Fox? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/33 "2016-02-29T22:52:53Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > My mother … feels that Hillary has become compromised somehow since she knew her. That happens when you’re getting things done. It’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/34 "2016-02-29T23:21:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > When comments make substantive allegations, I try to evaluate the evaluations as well as I can. But I think there is a narrative about Hillary that even the left buys into that appears, at least to me, to be rather unsubstantiated. Everyone just knows. What narrative, and why do you think it’s unsubstantiated? You mentioned that she’s portrayed as cold and robotic, which I suppose has happened on occasion, but I find the more dominant opinion is that she’s narcissistic, calculating, and unprincipled. The cold part may translate into that, but I don’t see the robotic. Narcissistic is pretty much a given for any politician, but she seems to many like a person who wants everything to be about her, if her ideas are criticized it’s always because she is a victim and not because they are bad ideas. She is seen as calculating because is a political animal who works the system to her advantage and uses excuses for her missteps instead of earning her way into office. And she is seen as unprincipled as a result, people believe she cares more about becoming president than any of the causes she claims to stand for. Now those are broad statements, opinions vary along a spectrum, but I think that she has been unsuccessful in any of the fights she claims to have been having for the sake of the people and yet still manages to keep herself in positions of power. So I don’t think that’s an undeserved narrative even if it’s not the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/35 "2016-02-29T23:22:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That happens when you’re getting things done. It’s how it works. That’s not the only way it happens though. And if getting things done is just for her personal benefit it’s not much of a defense. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/36 "2016-02-29T23:31:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That’s not the only way it happens though. Speeches and demonstrations, not so much. > [@](#): > > And if getting things done is just for her personal benefit it’s not much of a defense. What specifically are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/37 "2016-02-29T23:50:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Speeches and demonstrations, not so much. > > What specifically are you referring to? The perfect example, the Iraq war vote. I suppose you could chalk it up to incompetence but I think she was afraid she’d never get elected president if she voted against it. If a politician compromises to get things done for the people that’s can be a good thing, when they do it just to benefit themselves it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/38 "2016-02-29T23:55:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought the allegation was that she’d said it to a Secret Service agent, and not directly to Kessler himself? I went back and looked at the article again and you are correct. My mistake. > [@Miller](#): > > I’d absolutely not expect that, and I’d be surprised if the agency didn’t have some sort of mechanism to prevent it or punish retired agents who go public with gossip about their charges. For a security detail to work, the person being protected needs to trust the discretion of their security personnel. That can’t happen if there’s a real chance that a retired agent will write a tell-all. If a politician has to worry about that, then they’re going to at least occasionally act in ways that subvert their own security protocols, so there’s no danger of an agent seeing them cheat on a spouse, or kick a puppy, or say what they _really_ think of that foreign head of state - and then later tell the entire world about it. Well, in the article I saw, Kessler names Jeff Crane as a former Secret Service agent who spoke out against Hillary, so we know that in at least one case an agent did not feel prohibited from speaking out against her for the record. Kessler relates the other comments I posted without attribution, but I doubt an established reporter and author such as he would be making up such accusations out of whole cloth. It looks like several agents were willing to comment off the record, and given that not revealing sources is a time honored standard for reportage I’m not as willing to discount their observations about Hillary as is **Measure for Measure**. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/39 "2016-02-29T23:55:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That happens when you’re getting things done. It’s how it works. You don’t have to tell me. I take more seriously her impression from the 1980s than the one she is getting now listening to her hard left friends and reading The Nation and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468/40 "2016-03-01T01:44:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The perfect example, the Iraq war vote. I suppose you could chalk it up to incompetence but I think she was afraid she’d never get elected president if she voted against it. If a politician compromises to get things done for the people that’s can be a good thing, when they do it just to benefit themselves it ain’t. Imma going to take her vote at face value. She voted with congress and foreign policy minds like Joe Biden to go to war if Hans Blix found WMDs. The Bush Administration who promised they would wait for the results, more than likely got wind that when it was taking too long, would probably be negative on the weapons, so they trashed the UN and went in without weapons inspection results, and the rest, is history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-love-and-kindness/747468.md?page=3)