# Hillary Clinton's popularity ... explain it to me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050 "2003-11-30T12:22:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/21 "2003-11-30T21:51:23Z")
So does far. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/22 "2003-11-30T22:04:14Z")
We’ll have to let our friend say what he meant by “socialist”, then, if he comes back. But you do know it does come with a lot of baggage, and there are other words to use if that baggage isn’t intended, ya know? And yes, I do say that some guaranteed minimum health coverage is a centrist concept for the US today, so I’m glad you agree. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/23 "2003-11-30T22:09:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > **We’ll have to let our friend say what he meant by “socialist”, then, if he comes back.** I’m using [this one](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=socialistic), my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/24 "2003-11-30T22:15:10Z")
Look **Sam** the objection really isn’t to the word _socialist_, it’s to the snear that you (and presumably he) uses when they say it. The fact is that there is broad, even huge popular, support for socialist medicine in this country, as there is for all other essential services. Which, coincidently are all also socialist. It’s just that self described ‘conservatives’ use the word as a pejorative and apply it only to socilialist polices that they oppose. Police, fire, highways… all socialist in exactly the same way that hillarycare was going to be. And all enjoy broad popular support. Republican’s have so debased the meaning of certain words that even though they are accurate, you can’t allow them to be used by republicans because they carry way to much bullshit baggage. So **you** don’t get to use the word until you learn to either not say it with a snear, or begin to snear at **all of the socialist** things that we do. Like, for instance, the military, which is a \full out socialist society\ for pity’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/25 "2003-11-30T22:19:46Z")
Socialism is a far-left idea. I was using it against this: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by adaher_ > **Big name, best chance to be the 1st female President, left of center, but generally not to far left, centrist compared to most Democrats.** Her health care plan was undeniably socialistic. I don’t believe I was using the word with any kind of slant, I was using it according to it’s definition. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/26 "2003-11-30T23:20:11Z")
**Tejota:** Let me get this straight: Because I “snear” (sic) at socialism, you’re going to redefine socialistic policies as something other than socialism to avoid the ‘snear’? And here I thought I was being a little over-the-top calling this newspeak. But that’s exactly what it is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/27 "2003-12-01T00:55:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > But here’s the big thing - Hillary is respected because she has _earned_ respect, IMO. All of those early scandals aside, a fair observer has to admit that Hillary is a hell of a politician. Since she has been in elected office she has been fair, effective, and truthful. The right accused her of using New York as a springboard back into the White House, and she said she wouldn’t run in 2004. And despite enormous pressure to do so, she has kept her word. She has worked tirelessly for her state, and I’ve never heard another Senator on the right or left say a bad word about her. > > She’s certainly earned my respect, and I disliked her greatly ten years ago. Now, the cynics would claim that this is just a show, that deep down she’s still far to the left but biding her time. Me, I believe in judging people based on their actions, and it’s hard to find fault with much of what she’s done in the last three years. I will certainly agree that she plays good politics. I think she always has. But can you be more specific on what she’s actually **done** on the legislative side since taking office? What bills has she introduced and gotten thru the Senate, and how are they good for NY and the nation? I don’t follow her all that much, and am asking this out of true curiousity. You’ve said she’s earned your respect, but have only given some vague summary as to why. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/28 "2003-12-01T01:02:56Z")
I’d only add two things to **Billdo** ’s excellent post. First, Der Mayor choose not to run for Senate after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. His deadline (politically, not legally) came up at exactly the time he was dealing with treatment options (also, significant turmoil in his personal life). No comment there, just fleshing out the record. Second, the OP is wrong when he avers that Mrs. Clinton has no charm. In person, in particular when she’s on the hustings, she is as warm, funny and as charming as can be. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/29 "2003-12-01T01:03:43Z")
Given the wild success that the free enterprise system has achieved in bringing affordable health care to every citizen, I don’t really care what you call the alternative. We need it. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/30 "2003-12-01T01:17:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*I will certainly agree that she plays good politics. I think she always has. But can you be more specific on what she’s actually **done** on the legislative side since taking office? What bills has she introduced and gotten thru the Senate, and how are they good for NY and the nation? I don’t follow her all that much, and am asking this out of true curiousity. You’ve said she’s earned your respect, but have only given some vague summary as to why. \*\* She’s been a leader in maintaining milk subsidies and providing tax breaks for businesses staying in or relocating to upstate. And of course she was an important voice in securing the $20 billion promise for New York after the 9/11 terrorist attack. This thread is not to argue the merits of such things, of course – but it demonstrates that she was listening on her listening tour and that she’s able to bring home the pork when necessary. However, her real success in winning respect has been in what she _hasn’t_ done. Remember, she’s a junior Senator with her senior being of the same party. Her job, by tradition, is to be in something of a support role. Given her national profile, she’s done an outstanding job of working with Chuck Schumer and letting him be the lead. Also, many thought she’d be this terribly devisive figure – in fact, she’s worked well with (admittedly liberal) Republicans Pataki and Bloomberg. I don’t think there’s any secret that I disagree with Mrs. Clinton philosophically on almost every issue. But as a Senator, in terms of how she should be doing her job from her political perspective, I’d have to say she’s been nearly perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/31 "2003-12-01T01:48:43Z")
What Manhattan said. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/32 "2003-12-01T02:19:34Z")
**Lord Ashtar** , you’re still not getting it. I asked what, IYHO, government can do before you start throwing a sneering label at it instead of seriously discussing it. I take it you concede your similarly-spun misuse of “far”? Yep, friends, “Hillarycare” would have taken away our healthcare decisions and our choice of doctors away from us and put them in the hands of distant government bureaucrats interested primarily in cost reduction. Thank God for the free market system, in which our healthcare decisions and our choice of doctors has been taken away from us and put in the hands of distant _corporate_ bureaucrats interested primarily in cost reduction. It was certainly a narrow escape for us from the clutches of creeping socialism, wasn’t it? :rolleyes: For those of us fortunate enough to have coverage at all, that is. As for why she still gets so much abuse from the RW yammerers, that may be due to her immunity from it. Nothing they’ve said or done has had a real negative effect on her or her political image; it’s only strengthened her. That has to be infuriating to them. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/33 "2003-12-01T02:26:42Z")
The disappointing political performance of republican first-ladies from Pat Nixon on probably also adds a bit of **envy** to the mix. No one ever suggested that Nancy or Barbara should run for the senate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/34 "2003-12-01T02:38:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*The disappointing political performance of republican first-ladies from Pat Nixon on probably also adds a bit of **envy** to the mix. No one ever suggested that Nancy or Barbara should run for the senate. \*\* True, although neither of them have any real qualification for political office. Hillary is of the generation where women really could make a mark for themselves-- which she has done. And she also has the national name recognition to overcome the “Senator’s curse” should she run for pres in '08. When she does\*, though, we’ll see a smear campaign from the right the likes of which we’ve never seen in modern history. \*I’m still open to anyone who wants to bet she won’t run. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/35 "2003-12-01T03:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, I do know what she wanted to do. She wanted every single person in the country to have full health coverage, and she wanted to pay for it with taxpayer money. If that doesn’t sound socialistic to you, perhaps you should go look up the term. Gads…I hope **Lord Ashtar** never finds out about Medicare and Medicaid Personally, I’d rather see my tax money used to give every single person in the country full health coverage than, say, being awarded to Haliburton. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/36 "2003-12-01T06:30:38Z")
IMO, Hillary Clinton is an intelligent and articulate woman, who’s merely got the bad luck of being the perpetual target of the Republican Smear Machine™(C)(R)(pat.pend.) because she’s (a) smart, (b) female, and (c) not a Republican. That’s enough of a reason for me to support her – I’m just a sucker for the underdog. 😉 And IIRC, Hillary’s health care proposal was actually supported by most of the large HMOs in the United States – it was the smaller guys who risked getting squeezed, so they had to paint it as an “extreme socialist scheme” to derail it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/37 "2003-12-01T06:45:40Z")
**You really think so? She certainly has the rep of being left of center wrt most Dems. Perhaps that’s a legacy of her failed attempt to nationalize the health care system.** Go to [Democraticunderground.com](http://Democraticunderground.com), which I think is probably the biggest left wing website that associates itself with the Democratic Party. They HATE Hillary. You’d think, “Oh, maybe it’s because of the war vote.” It’s that, but they find the time to bash her history prior to 1992. For example, she once represented Wal-Mart, which makes her essentially Satan to many lefties. Not to mention her voting record is a rather centrist one, even if she has been associated with Hillarycare. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/38 "2003-12-01T14:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > **Lord Ashtar, you’re still not getting it. I asked what, IYHO, government can do before you start throwing a sneering label at it instead of seriously discussing it. I take it you concede your similarly-spun misuse of “far”?** I’m afraid it’s you who’s not getting it. All I was arguing was **adaher’s** statement that Hillary wasn’t that far left, that she was in fact nearly centrist. This is not true. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bizzwire \* > **Gads…I hope Lord Ashtar never finds out about Medicare and Medicaid.** I don’t recall saying that socialistic ideas were _bad_, I just said they were far left. If someone would like to argue that point with me rather than paint me as a right-winger (which I do not consider myself), then I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/39 "2003-12-01T14:52:40Z")
If it’s not true IYHO that’s she’s “nearly centrist”, perhaps you could back your statement up instead of simply repeating it, with or without invective as you choose. If you want to be taken seriously, that’s pretty much a requirement here, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050/40 "2003-12-01T15:05:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*If it’s not true IYHO that’s she’s “nearly centrist”, perhaps you could back your statement up instead of simply repeating it, with or without invective as you choose. If you want to be taken seriously, that’s pretty much a requirement here, ya know. \*\* So, you’re telling me that you don’t believe that socialism is not a far left idea? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-popularity-explain-it-to-me/216050.md?page=3)