# Hillary Clinton's Presidential Campaign Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873 "2016-05-04T11:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/921 "2016-09-05T20:33:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She didn’t turn over her emails as required by law. That’s a fact you just can’t get around. And it’s the biggest thing you have, after literally decades and literally tens of millions spent on finding something. And you have to look at it at a particular angle in the sun even to justify that as a true statement. Again, whose character is really being revealed here? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/922 "2016-09-05T20:35:17Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What does putting him away look like? Right now “and then a miracle happens” is the only path to a Trump victory. 3.4 points is not a solid enough lead two months out to say Trump needs a miracle. 28% change of winning equates to being down three run in the 7th inning, or 7 points down halfway through the 4th quarter. Trump just needs a good debate performance. And since nearly every cycle Democrats’ confident predictions of their guy dominating our guy never comes true, it’s not a Hail Mary. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/923 "2016-09-05T20:35:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And BTW, I talk tons of shit about Trump on various threads. The difference is that I don’t get guff for it. I drop my commentary, everyone agrees, and it’s all good. Much as Clinton could defuse stories just by coming clean, her water carriers here could just acknowledge her faults and move on. Because there is tons of real shit you can say about Trump, no matter how much you insist “Hillary should come clean about all the evil things we’ve made up about her” is a dumb ass idea. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/924 "2016-09-05T20:36:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And BTW, I talk tons of shit about Trump on various threads. You support the party that defined itself by nominating him. It isn’t about Trump personally, it’s about your party, and those who support it, and what it says about \*their \*character. A steady stream of “But Hillary” in response reveals character too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/925 "2016-09-05T20:37:13Z")
It’s all made up, fine. Now convince the public of that. THe people she’s hired to do that for her don’t have much to work with. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/926 "2016-09-05T20:39:01Z")
\*Now \*who’s calling the people stupid? _You_, that’s who. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/927 "2016-09-05T20:40:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You support the party that defined itself by nominating him. It isn’t about Trump personally, it’s about your party, and those who support it, and what it says about \*their \*character. A steady stream of “But Hillary” in response reveals character too. Don’t even lecture Republicans about character, members of the party that thinks it’s okay to lie to appease red state voters in order to win. On another thread we’ve got people actually saying they want a President to lie about their faith. The GOP is the party of markets and small government and there are a lot of good people in it. And also a lot of bad. But one thing we all have in common is that what they say they believe, we take it at face value. If you’re assuming your candidate is lying then you already have your reason to not vote for him or her. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/928 "2016-09-05T20:41:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > \*Now \*who’s calling the people stupid? _You_, that’s who. I think the people have a pretty accurate view of both candidates, actually. You’re the one who thinks the public is wrong about one of them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/929 "2016-09-05T20:46:59Z")
The one who’s leading pretty comfortably? No, the believers in the falsehoods and evidenceless insinuations your party has been spreading for decades are in the minority, even though it’s a disappointingly large one. The question you keep ducking is why \*you \*continue to be one of them. > [@adaher](#): > > Don’t even lecture Republicans about character You’re going to get lectured about evidence as long as you continue to ignore it and manufacture your own. > [@](#): > > The GOP is the party of markets and small government Yet you nominated Trump. I’ll go with the evidence, thanks. > [@](#): > > But one thing we all have in common is that what they say they believe, we take it at face value. So you’re calling your own party’s membership stupid now. Good one. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/930 "2016-09-05T20:50:18Z")
She leads because right now the public prefers dishonesty to just plain unfit. But the public knows who she is. Only a small minority consider her honest. There’s nothing about her or Trump’s numbers on any issue or personality trait that don’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/931 "2016-09-05T20:53:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think the people have a pretty accurate view of both candidates, actually. You’re the one who thinks the public is wrong about one of them. Indeed, and one can make an effort to see how wrong they are. [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/) According to Politifact Trump has reach for statements that are either mostly false, false or pants on fire lies a total of 170 times. Clinton has done so 68 times, but specifically in the category of “Pants on fire” she only got 6 while Trump has **44**. Your argument is reduced to one of demanding purity. It is a very silly one. > **[Perfect is the enemy of good](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good)** > > Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism which means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements. Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value. > > In the English-speaking world the aphorism is commonly attributed to Voltaire, who quoted an Italian proverb in his Questions sur l'Encyclopédie \[fr\] in 1770: "Il meglio è l... > [@](#): > > Robert Watson-Watt, who developed early warning radar in Britain to counter the rapid growth of the Luftwaffe, propounded a “cult of the imperfect”, which he described as, “Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes.”[8] ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/932 "2016-09-05T20:55:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She leads because right now the public prefers dishonesty to just plain unfit. > > But the public knows who she is. Only a small minority consider her honest. There’s nothing about her or Trump’s numbers on any issue or personality trait that don’t make sense. Plain unfit is not equal to dishonest. It covers _so_ much more. We all expect a certain level of dishonest in any politician. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/933 "2016-09-05T20:58:01Z")
Which is why the fact Clinton is dishonest should not need to be rebutted. Gigo, the people are right, and citing Politifact in ways Politifact never intended to “prove” the public wrong is the type of argument that only avoids getting laughed off this board because of the liberal bias here. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/934 "2016-09-05T21:01:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is why the fact Clinton is dishonest should not need to be rebutted. > > Gigo, the people are right, and citing Politifact in ways Politifact never intended to “prove” the public wrong is the type of argument that only avoids getting laughed off this board because of the liberal bias here. Politifact put up that page, \*\*Gigo \*\*didn’t create it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/935 "2016-09-05T21:06:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is why the fact Clinton is dishonest should not need to be rebutted. > > Gigo, the people are right, and citing Politifact in ways Politifact never intended to “prove” the public wrong is the type of argument that only avoids getting laughed off this board because of the liberal bias here. She’s the least dishonest candidate in the race. The people didn’t chose dishonest over unfit, they chose fit and honest over unfit and dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/936 "2016-09-05T21:06:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She leads because right now the public prefers dishonesty to just plain unfit. > > But the public knows who she is. Only a small minority consider her honest. There’s nothing about her or Trump’s numbers on any issue or personality trait that don’t make sense. Speaking of unfit, we can see it also with the company Trump keeps, or as it is called nowadays: Personnel is Policy. Getting support and staff that have in their past convictions of using racial profiling (Arpaio), abusing women (Ailes), spreading lies with their media group (Ailes and the Breitbart staff), [denying science and accelerating the harm of many with climate change deniers as his energy policy people](http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2016/05/20/trump_picks_climate_change_denier_as_energy_advisor.html) does not gives us any good reasons to support Trump to become the next president. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/937 "2016-09-05T21:10:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What does putting him away look like? Right now “and then a miracle happens” is the only path to a Trump victory. Aside: I think I remember the cartoon that quote comes from, its like a giant equation with one step of the equation being a circle with that in it. _New Yorker_, I think. Love to have it, do you know? Like one scientist is saying something like “That part there is bit vague”… The other one I’m looking for forever is from _Playboy_, when I found the old man’s stash. Two zen monks sitting in meditation and one says to the other “Pure existence is such a gas I can hardly stand it!” /Aside ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/938 "2016-09-05T21:16:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Aside: I think I remember the cartoon that quote comes from, its like a giant equation with one step of the equation being a circle with that in it. _New Yorker_, I think. Love to have it, do you know? Like one scientist is saying something like “That part there is bit vague”… > > The other one I’m looking for forever is from _Playboy_, when I found the old man’s stash. Two zen monks sitting in meditation and one says to the other “Pure existence is such a gas I can hardly stand it!” > > /Aside [Here you go.](https://contemplatingcognition.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/miracleoccurs.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/939 "2016-09-05T21:18:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She leads because right now the public prefers dishonesty to just plain unfit. > > But the public knows who she is. Only a small minority consider her honest. There’s nothing about her or Trump’s numbers on any issue or personality trait that don’t make sense. Trump is much more dishonest than her. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/940 "2016-09-05T21:23:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Gigo, the people are right, Since most Republicans are depending on people that are ignorant, no. Many are not right. Most of the media are failing to take the big liar to task. Concentrating on Hillary’s “dishonesty” when the issue was already dealt with and no crime was found while ignoring what Trump does is a big failure to educate the public. Among the failures right now is how Trump has not been taken to task much about not releasing his taxes, it seems that he is lying even about the reasons why he is not releasing them. Even Nixon did release them while he was audited back then and as it typically happens with Trump: there seems to be no evidence that trump is being audited as he claims. [https://thinkprogress.org/the-big-lie-about-donald-trumps-tax-returns-585aa23bf529#.az5d1dwjz](https://thinkprogress.org/the-big-lie-about-donald-trumps-tax-returns-585aa23bf529#.az5d1dwjz) > [@adaher](#): > > and citing Politifact in ways Politifact never intended to “prove” the public wrong is the type of argument that only avoids getting laughed off this board because of the liberal bias here. :rolleyes: Most of the public are ok, they are still more in favor of Clinton anyhow. It is you who is wrong. but this is typical with most of your points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=48)