# Hillary Clinton's Presidential Campaign Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873 "2016-05-04T11:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1281 "2016-09-13T19:07:06Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Nah. The primary difference is that Romney’s remarks were basically “Ew, poor people” whereas Clinton’s were “Ew, racists”. You can be a good, hard working person and still be on the lower end of the economic curve. It’s harder to promote the idea that someone is being unfair to racists, misogynists, etc. > > Plus, as noted, Romney’s remarks were about 47% of America. If you’re on that end of the scale, you get insulted about being called lazy. Clinton’s remarks were explicitly about Trump supporters. If you’re a Trump supporter, go ahead and get mad but Clinton doesn’t give a shit because she’s not trying to lure those people away; she’s trying to keep others from joining them. **This**. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. I will add one more reason why Romney’s comments better qualify as political malpractice. The category of people he was referring to is precisely defined. If anyone wants to know whether Romney was talking about them, all they need to do is find a photo copy or print out of their most recent tax return. Hillary’s comments were more nebulous; therefore, if any individual person was offended, she could always say “oh, well: I wasn’t talking about you – you are in the other half”. > [@adaher](#): > > You were doing fine until you characterized Clinton’s statement as thoroughly accurate. Just as she lies even when she doesn’t have to, supporters here carry water for her when they don’t actually have to. I think this would, unfortunately, be a fair characterization of the reaction to her hiding her pneumonia. But you are asserting it as regards the “basket of deplorables” comments, and that is just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1282 "2016-09-13T21:11:27Z")
> **[Middle class incomes had their fastest growth on record last year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-middle-class-and-the-poor-just-had-the-best-year-since-the-end-of-the-great-recession/)** > > The incomes of typical Americans rose in 2015 by 5.2 percent, the first significant boost to middle-class pay since the end of the Great Recession, the Census Bureau reported Tuesday morning. Now this is something that Hillary could use to her advantage. Remind voters of the Clinton years and that she’s a continuation of Obama. If nothing else, it looks like the economy is going to hold up in her favor through the end of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1283 "2016-09-13T21:40:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-middle-class-and-the-poor-just-had-the-best-year-since-the-end-of-the-great-recession/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-middle-class-and-the-poor-just-had-the-best-year-since-the-end-of-the-great-recession/) > > Now this is something that Hillary could use to her advantage. Remind voters of the Clinton years and that she’s a continuation of Obama. If nothing else, it looks like the economy is going to hold up in her favor through the end of the year. And the one-two-punch should be reminders of how lousy a businessman Trump is. He’s a decent thief and a fairly-effective extortionist and quite a skilled exploiter of bankruptcy laws. But that’s not what his fans believe–they believe that he is good at _building and running a business_. It’s the top rationalization people give for supporting him. (Some actually believe it and others just use it as a fig-leaf for their attraction to Trump’s bigotry.) Of course efforts to expose Trump’s incompetence are hampered by his determination to hide his tax returns. We need more calls from prominent people for disclosure of Trump’s debts, lenders, and investments in general. To whom is he in hock? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1284 "2016-09-13T22:02:58Z")
I think the next week or so will be very telling. If the people of this country are seriously going to throw away 8 years of steady, if sometimes slow and modest, economic growth and a gradual return to prosperity in favor of some bloviating buffoon, just because they find Hillary boring and aloof, then I give up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1285 "2016-09-13T22:04:03Z")
“In a democracy, people get the leaders they deserve.” - Joseph de Maistre. God help us all. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1286 "2016-09-13T22:50:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > And the one-two-punch should be reminders of how lousy a businessman Trump is. > > He’s a decent thief and a fairly-effective extortionist and quite a skilled exploiter of bankruptcy laws. But that’s not what his fans believe–they believe that he is good at _building and running a business_. It’s the top rationalization people give for supporting him. (Some actually believe it and others just use it as a fig-leaf for their attraction to Trump’s bigotry.) I actually find myself hoping more of them are in that latter category. It’s just too much for me to take, to think that so many people actually believe he is a successful businessman, whereas being a bigot is a classic American tradition, nothing new or notable there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1287 "2016-09-13T22:53:15Z")
At least we have advanced enough to make hypocrisy needful, like the way someone precedes a racist slur with an assurance that one is not a racist. It is not enough, of course, but it means its not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1288 "2016-09-13T22:53:56Z")
I don’t know–there are so many comments out there from people who are impressed by all the gold leaf used in his apartment and whatnot. They probably genuinely believe _He’s A Rich Guy So That Means He Knows How To Run The Economy_. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1289 "2016-09-13T22:54:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “In a democracy, people get the leaders they deserve.” - Joseph de Maistre. > > God help us all. I’m not sure the Jews (or most other Germans) deserved Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1290 "2016-09-13T23:03:51Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … people who are impressed by all the gold leaf used in his apartment… I happened to have the TV machine on when there was the interview of Ms Trump in their home. “Garish” and “tasteless” don’t even begin. Like he bought it from the estate of Auric Goldfinger. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1291 "2016-09-13T23:09:12Z")
Yeah, it’s pretty vulgar. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1292 "2016-09-13T23:11:58Z")
You are very kind. A virtue I heartily approve without the slightest intent to emulate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1293 "2016-09-13T23:20:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think the next week or so will be very telling. If the people of this country are seriously going to throw away 8 years of steady, if sometimes slow and modest, economic growth and a gradual return to prosperity in favor of some bloviating buffoon, just because they find Hillary boring and aloof, then I give up. What in the world would one more week tell you? We already know that somewhere in the mid-40% of the country supports Donald Trump. Whether that percentage ends up 2 points less than the number that supports HRC or 1 point more, is that really the telling fact? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1294 "2016-09-13T23:53:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It was accurate. It probably understated it, if anything. By the polling, at least half of Trump’s supporters believe that black people are lazier or more violent, or that Muslims should be kept out, or that homosexuality should be banned, or that Obama isn’t American, etc, when added together. Unless you don’t think these views are deplorable, then she is correct. Actually, it only asked what Trump’s WHITE supporters thought. I’d be very interested in what Clinton’s Latino, Asian, and African-American supporters think. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1295 "2016-09-14T00:09:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, it only asked what Trump’s WHITE supporters thought. I’d be very interested in what Clinton’s Latino, Asian, and African-American supporters think. I had the same curiousity. Maybe it was because I read [this story](http://wncn.com/2016/09/12/server-doesnt-receive-tip-writes-another-4-reasons-why-i-hate-black-people-on-no-tip-receipts/) at about the same time. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1296 "2016-09-14T00:20:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I had the same curiousity. Maybe it was because I read [this story](http://wncn.com/2016/09/12/server-doesnt-receive-tip-writes-another-4-reasons-why-i-hate-black-people-on-no-tip-receipts/) at about the same time. What does that have to do with Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1297 "2016-09-14T00:22:09Z")
Well, _Applebee_’s! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1298 "2016-09-14T00:25:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What in the world would one more week tell you? We already know that somewhere in the mid-40% of the country supports Donald Trump. Whether that percentage ends up 2 points less than the number that supports HRC or 1 point more, is that really the telling fact? Certainly, in the grand scheme of things, we already have more than enough data to know that there are serious problems with our democracy, and that’s a situation that will fester past the election. What I meant was that the next week will probably give us some indication as to how voters are beginning to perceive the state of the country, the candidates, and the takeaways from this race. The next 30-40 days is when the voters finally start making up their minds. The way I see it, we now have a very clear choice between a real candidate and a reality TV candidate. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1299 "2016-09-14T00:58:52Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So, again, where’s the proof that Hillary Clinton is a serial liar? Or needs to be called out above all other politicians for her rampant lies? There’s a difference between these two “lies”: Statement: Program A will help 80% of the the people. Reality: Program A will help 60% of the people. Statement: I landed under sniper fire and had to run for cover. Reality: There was no sniper fire. A little girl gave me flowers. Normal people expect a certain amount of exaggeration, spin, and creative interpretation from politicians. They have a distaste for for ridiculous, bald-faced outright lies, especially when there’s no real advantage to doing so. Examples off the top of my head: - Bosnian airport sniper fire. - Named after Sir Edmund Hillary. - Husband not guilty, it was a vast right wing conspiracy. - Turned down by the marines. - The Clintons were flat broke when they left the white house. - Numerous documented email lies. The last one was at least defensible, but the blaming of her staff (“I followed the recommendations of my subordinates”) clearly shows a moral decrepitude and a failure of Good Leadership 101. The rest pretty clearly indicate she is a compulsive liar. Nothing to gain, lots to lose, but she does it anyway. Really. She lies more ridiculously than the drunk guy at the bar who keeps telling me he smoked weed with Kurt Vonnegut while working for the CIA. It’s terrible. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1300 "2016-09-14T01:23:08Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > There’s a difference between these two “lies”: > > Statement: Program A will help 80% of the the people. > Reality: Program A will help 60% of the people. > > Statement: I landed under sniper fire and had to run for cover. > Reality: There was no sniper fire. A little girl gave me flowers. > > Normal people expect a certain amount of exaggeration, spin, and creative interpretation from politicians. They have a distaste for for ridiculous, bald-faced outright lies, especially when there’s no real advantage to doing so. > > Examples off the top of my head: > > - Bosnian airport sniper fire. > - Named after Sir Edmund Hillary. > - Husband not guilty, it was a vast right wing conspiracy. > - Turned down by the marines. > - The Clintons were flat broke when they left the white house. > - Numerous documented email lies. > > The last one was at least defensible, but the blaming of her staff (“I followed the recommendations of my subordinates”) clearly shows a moral decrepitude and a failure of Good Leadership 101. The rest pretty clearly indicate she is a compulsive liar. Nothing to gain, lots to lose, but she does it anyway. > > Really. She lies more ridiculously than the drunk guy at the bar who keeps telling me he smoked weed with Kurt Vonnegut while working for the CIA. It’s terrible. [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/15/trump-versus-clinton-the-pinocchio-count-so-far/) > [@](#): > > Trump (52 rated claims) > > Four Pinocchios: 33 (63 percent) > > Three Pinocchios: 11 (21 percent) > > Two Pinocchios: 5 (10 percent) > > One Pinocchio: 1 (2 percent) > > Geppetto Checkmark: 2 (4 percent). > > Clinton (36 rated claims) > > Four Pinocchios: 5 (14 percent) > > Three Pinocchios: 13 (36 percent) > > Two Pinocchios: 11 (30.5 percent) > > One Pinocchio: 2 (5.5 percent) > > Geppetto Checkmark: 5 (14 percent) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=66)