# Hillary Clinton's Presidential Campaign Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873 "2016-05-04T11:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1321 "2016-09-14T05:21:00Z")
Seriously, I feel the need to emphasize this. > [@ChickenLegs](#): > > - Named after Sir Edmund Hillary. In a list of lies that supposedly should impinge on her honesty, you for some reason find it necessary to pad it by bringing up a cute and utterly meaningless personal anecdote from back when I was still crapping my diapers that [was told to her by her mother and she simply didn’t doubt at the time](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/19/mitch-mcconnell/did-hillary-clinton-lie-about-being-named-after-si/). This while the opposing candidate’s main reason provided for accepting his judgment on foreign affairs is _[literally based on a lie](http://time.com/4484539/donald-trump-iraq-war-claim/)_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1322 "2016-09-14T11:02:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Their fact checking is excellent. They do not claim to measure the overall honesty of candidates. You claim to measure a candidate’s honesty by some means other than factuality, then. Care to tell us why that is? Why your claims about Clinton’s dishonesty reflect Truth and so do not have to be grounded in mere reality? How’s all that work? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1323 "2016-09-14T12:02:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, it only asked what Trump’s WHITE supporters thought. I’d be very interested in what Clinton’s Latino, Asian, and African-American supporters think. LOL – Trump’s supporters are overwhelmingly white. The difference in polling between his white supporters and his overall supporters is negligible. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1324 "2016-09-14T12:04:36Z")
[http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-14/ohio-poll](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-14/ohio-poll) I think this is an election that stat geeks like Silver and Wang are just not in a position to call. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1325 "2016-09-14T12:12:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-14/ohio-poll) > > I think this is an election that stat geeks like Silver and Wang are just not in a position to call. A single poll doesn’t mean he is now winning in that state. Polling aggregates (and experts like Silver) tell us that. Feel free to believe that this election is different, but until Silver’s track record in predicting Presidential general elections becomes flawed, I’m not going to believe random internet people are anywhere close to as good as he is at predicting Presidential general elections. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1326 "2016-09-14T13:29:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-14/ohio-poll) > > I think this is an election that stat geeks like Silver and Wang are just not in a position to call. It’s not like he’s suddenly taken the lead there and now everything’s changed. T[here have been plenty of polls showing him up there. And some showing Clinton.](http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ohio/) Relax. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1327 "2016-09-14T13:39:19Z")
That’s a lot closer than I’d like to see here in Ohio - but then, that’s why it’s a battleground state. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1328 "2016-09-14T15:31:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A single poll doesn’t mean he is now winning in that state. Polling aggregates (and experts like Silver) tell us that. Trump has actually been leading in most polls in Ohio: > **[Ohio | 2016 Election Forecast | FiveThirtyEight](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ohio/)** > > Ohio predictions and polling data for the 2016 presidential election between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1329 "2016-09-14T15:58:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Trump has actually been leading in most polls in Ohio: > > [Ohio | 2016 Election Forecast | FiveThirtyEight](http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ohio/) 538’s polls only forecast has Hillary slightly ahead in OH. Their polls-plus has Trump slightly ahead (this is a very recent development). I trust 538 and Nate Silver because of their great track record. Ohio appears to be tightening and very close, as it usually is, and it’s not terribly surprising. Hillary’s overall lead remains significant but not certain, and according to 538 she has an over 70% chance to win in enough states to add up to 270 right now, which is why her lead is still sturdy even if it’s not huge. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1330 "2016-09-14T20:54:43Z")
[The latest on Hillary’s health.](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/clinton-releases-more-medical-information-after-pneumonia-diagnosis-228175?cmpid=sf) > [@](#): > > Hillary Clinton’s campaign on Wednesday released more information about her health that depicted her as a healthy 68-year-old woman with low cholesterol (without taking a statin) and seasonal allergies. She also takes a thyroid medication, and as the campaign has previously disclosed, she takes a blood thinner, Coumadin. > > The campaign also said it will release more information about her health later on Wednesday in the form of a comprehensive letter from her physician, a move designed to reassure voters just days after she was diagnosed with pneumonia. > > The letter from Dr. Lisa Bardack will describe how the Democratic nominee received a non-contrast chest CT scan on Friday, said a Clinton campaign official. The scan revealed a small right middle-lobe pneumonia, which was non-contagious and bacterial. She was treated with Levaquin, and instructed to stay on it for 10 days, the campaign said. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1331 "2016-09-14T21:10:13Z")
It’s all well and good that the Clintons are releasing information, but I think they (and a few here) are missing the real impact of her pneumonia battle. The fact is that despite their initial denials, Hillary was visibly ill with a serious, even if treatable, illness. Clinton has been and will continue to be the subject of perhaps unprecedented levels of nasty conspiracy theory political campaigning. When Obama was the subject of a similar smear campaign in 2012, he released his birth certificates, and more importantly, there was never anything that even remotely corroborated the claims. That is not the case with Clinton, who already rates very poorly when it comes to credibility. This is on the heels of the continued inability to deal forthrightly with her email scandals. She keeps people at arms length and operates with secrecy, and then implicitly and explicitly releases information to the public that is demonstrably false. That’s the problem. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1332 "2016-09-14T21:23:09Z")
Best counterargument, short of a marathon run, would be simply to keep on keepin’ on. Put more emphasis on surrogates, of which she is abundantly supplied. Relax, Eeyore. There’s still a good chance this will work out. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1333 "2016-09-14T21:42:50Z")
@ **asahi** : No, that’s not the problem. The problem is we’re dealing with an opposition full of CTers. There is absolutely NOTHING one can say or not say, do or not do, to alter a CTer’s opinion. What one can do is get the honest segment of the media to quit playing into the CTer’s paranoia. Focus on the fraction of the populace you can actually reason with. And then we quit hyperventilating every time a CTer says “But I’m not convinced!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1334 "2016-09-14T21:45:16Z")
“CTer” Huh? Wha? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1335 "2016-09-14T21:53:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “CTer” Huh? Wha? Conspiracy Theorists. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1336 "2016-09-14T23:50:55Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > @ **asahi** : No, that’s not the problem. The problem is we’re dealing with an opposition full of CTers. There is absolutely NOTHING one can say or not say, do or not do, to alter a CTer’s opinion. > > What one can do is get the honest segment of the media to quit playing into the CTer’s paranoia. Focus on the fraction of the populace you can actually reason with. > > And then we quit hyperventilating every time a CTer says “But I’m not convinced!” Yes, there are conspiracy theorists, but there are a lot of voters whose minds are not yet made up. Clinton could just be more transparent. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1337 "2016-09-15T00:52:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay, gonna have to stop you right there, because while yes, there is a difference between this and the next example, there’s also a substantial difference between this and a lie like this: > > Statement: 42% of the country is out of work and wants to be working > Reality: The real number is closer to 5-10% > > It’s the difference between an exaggeration and a flat-out fabrication. “Unemployment is slightly worse than they’re telling you” vs. “Unemployment isn’t just a little worse, it’s an outright menace that’s going to murder us all!” is quite a substantial difference. > > “The NFL sent me a letter complaining about the debates!” > “The debates are rigged up against sports games to minimize my impact!” > “I saw thousands of Muslims celebrating on 9/11!” > > I could continue, but really, [all I have to do is link to this page](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/22/all-of-donald-trumps-four-pinocchio-ratings-in-one-place/?tid=a_inl), you can read for yourself. Not only are Trump’s lies quite regularly absurd fabrications, they’re often absurd fabrications that can be checked instantly by anyone with an interest in reality or for whom other parties involved would have good reason and ability to debunk. > > Not only that, but they differ from Clinton’s lies in another substantial way: they are about _policy_. Not a single lie you mentioned there says anything about Clinton’s policies, what she plans to do as president, or how she will react to any given situation. Trump lies about that _constantly_. And not just little lies of exaggerations; significant, _substantial_ lies about policies that fundamentally would not work working, or being able to pay for things in a way you just can’t do, or how his tax plan would affect him personally. > > If you’re upset about Clinton’s lies, you should be _incensed_ by Trump’s. Or does the fact that his lying is constantly about shit that matters somehow make it _better_? > > Also, looking over your list, several issues are from decades ago, a few of them are thoroughly ambiguous, and _none_ of them say anything about policy. Opponents of Trump don’t have to reach back to 1995 to find something he _maybe_ lied about. We can just turn on the news and see him lying in real time. I was responding to this question: “So, again, where’s the proof that Hillary Clinton is a serial liar? Or needs to be called out above all other politicians for her rampant lies?” I’ve provided the proof, and explained why. I didn’t say Donald Trump hasn’t lied. Sure, other politicians lie. But the the others lie in an attempt to exaggerate their value, or to gain a political edge. Clinton seems to instinctively lie about BS stuff. Compulsively. Sure, you guys have all the standard, intellectual defenses: This lie doesn’t count, because of this. This one was really only a small lie, because of that. These lies don’t count, because other people told similar lies. But you guys aren’t normal Americans. Normal Americans have an edge over the rabid partisan excuse makers here: they see Clinton for a liar just as clearly as they see that guy in the bar. That’s why you may well lose this - your candidates lies are bad enough on their own, but her defenders’ attempts to excuse them are even worse. “You would clearly see that these lies aren’t really so bad, if you were only as smart as us” isn’t gaining many voters. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1338 "2016-09-15T00:55:09Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Sure, other politicians lie. But the the others lie in an attempt to exaggerate their value, or to gain a political edge. Clinton seems to instinctively lie about BS stuff. Compulsively. In deciding who to vote for, I am at a loss to see why the latter is worse than the former. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1339 "2016-09-15T01:25:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL – Trump’s supporters are overwhelmingly white. The difference in polling between his white supporters and his overall supporters is negligible. He had said Clinton’s minority supporters, not Trump’s. Reread the post you quoted. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … but until Silver’s track record in predicting Presidential general elections becomes flawed, I’m not going to believe random internet people are anywhere close to as good as he is at predicting Presidential general elections. It brings me a lot of delight to read the parsing here and be reminded of one of Nate Silver’s more recent and immense failures as an election prognosticator. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/1340 "2016-09-15T04:21:27Z")
Huh. And all this time I thought Trump was the one who lied compulsively. BTW, did you know he delivered a one-hour speech today standing in a convention center that was 122 degrees? And even weirder, some of his audience were wearing coats… > **[Trump: 'Do you think Hillary could stand up here for an hour?'](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-health-228186?cmpid=sf)** > > Speaking in Ohio, he says: "It is hot and it is always hot when I perform, because the crowds are so big." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=68)