# Hillary Clinton's Presidential Campaign Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873 "2016-05-04T11:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/161 "2016-06-11T02:54:18Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Bush kicks over an anthill and you blame Obama for the ants going nuts. Go it. If it’s Bush’s responsibility to fix it, then maybe we should elect Jeb instead? If you want to be President, that means you take responsibility for addressing the problems of your predecessors. THe fact that it’s someone else’s fault doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for fixing it. Obama wants to run out the clock. Clinton will have to have an actual strategy, and almost certainly will. And she’ll actually listen to the generals. > [@](#): > > Big Gummint Is Evil. Ho hum. That’s the conventional wisdom, and liberals’ insoucience about it only contributes to the perception. > [@](#): > > Blame Russian for Russian aggression. Or, more accurately, blame The Shirtless Czar. And the correct way to handle Russia? A return to Cold War politics? Or perhaps something else? Again, there’s no evidence of a strategy here, so this is a problem that will be a big deal for the next President. > [@](#): > > It certainly has its growing pains. It will get better. Maybe even get replaced by true universal healthcare. It will get better if the next President does her job well. The next President won’t be tied down by ACA’s legacy. She can get rid of whatever she thinks is necessary because it’s not her baby. > [@](#): > > Define “entitlements”. If it’s the usual Repub suspects (Social Security, Medicare, public education) that don’t take more than a fraction of what we throw at the military-industrial complex, then don’t waste my time. Medicare is not far from insolvency. Disability is pretty much there already. Social Security gets there in 20-25 years. Time is running out for a President to grow a pair. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/162 "2016-06-11T02:56:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The executive branch functions well enough. The only “government dysfunction” is entirely the fault of obstructionist Republicans in Congress, who have resolved from day one to deny Obama any accomplishments and even to implicitly deny his legitimacy as POTUS. HRC won’t fare much better with them unless the downballot elections put in more Dems. And Trump might well fare even worse. The VA only? Sure about that? Have the government’s IT problems been resolved, so that what happened with the ACA website doesn’t happen to future big projects? Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have both complained that the government overclassifies information, although strangely this only became a problem they cared about when it got the nominee in trouble. Obama in a speech said we have something like 17 different agencies that regulate tangerines or some such. Has that been addressed? The GAO has identified $200 billion in duplicative spending. Has that been addressed? The government is not complying with FOIA requests. That’s probably intentional though. In the 1980s the Grace Commission identified the federal government as the worst run enterprise in the country. Things have not gotten better. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/163 "2016-06-17T19:35:30Z")
Hillary has dumped Debbie Wasserman-Schultz as chair of the DNC. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/164 "2016-06-18T02:06:34Z")
That’s a change I think we can all agree on. She’s a local woman, great human being. She should have never taken a job that required her to lie and spin all the time, because she sucks at it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/165 "2016-06-18T02:26:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a change I think we can all agree on. She’s a local woman, great human being. She should have never taken a job that required her to lie and spin all the time, because she sucks at it. Her support of the rapacious Payday loan industry was embarrassing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/166 "2016-06-18T02:29:53Z")
It helps that the payday lenders urged their customers to call their Congressmen. And the customers did. It’s one thing to go after an industry. Pissing off a big customer base is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/167 "2016-06-18T16:58:56Z")
No individual should be a sitting member of Congress _and_ chair a major political party. Pick one and do your best at that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/168 "2016-06-18T19:28:36Z")
[Neocons are endorsing Clinton. Vigorously.](http://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/another_neocon_endorses_clinton_calling_her_2016s_real_conservative_and_the_candidate_of_the_status_quo/) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/169 "2016-06-18T20:22:44Z")
And **BG** , they’re right and for the right reasons. Trump represents unpredictable and likely irrational change (beyond being “a gruesome amalgamation of the Monopoly Man and Elmer Gantry”). Clinton is more a continuation of what they’ve been dealing with, the pragmatic incrementalist approach of the Obama administration. They know that approach and it is not scary to them, just regrettable. The more stable and predictable the better from a true conservative perspective and between the two Clinton “whatever her manifold faults, is the only candidate promising some form of economic, social and political continuity with the present …” Clinton is “far more principled and knowledgeable about foreign affairs than Trump, who is too unstable and erratic.” Or as another one of the quoted stated; “Hillary Clinton ultimately operates within the normal remit of an American political leader.” Hard to argue with any of that, completely correct, and exactly how I would expect a neocon to see it. While we are at it … [Wall Street Journal deputy editorial page editor](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/17/wsjs_bret_stephens_hillary_clinton_as_awful_as_i_find_her_is_a_survivable_event_im_not_so_sure_about_trump.html) Bret Stephens is not so far off that same page. He can’t bring himself to vote for her but compared to Trump? “I think that for the United States, Hillary Clinton, as awful as I find her, is a survivable event. I’m not so sure about Donald Trump.” When the alternative is batshit insane even by the standards of the far right a good ole liberal promising to mostly expand upon Obama’s two terms (yes, with a bit more of a tendency to see military muscularity as an option than Obama has) looks really good. Many conservatives hate Clinton deeply. But they know she is competent and rational. Trump they see as neither and as an existential threat to what they still want to think of as “their” party. Between the two they’d much rather survive Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/170 "2016-06-18T20:36:11Z")
So, after spending a quarter century making Clinton out to be some kind of Bond villain, conservative pundits now have to somehow make the case that she’s still better than the guy their party just picked to battle her. Sucks to be them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/171 "2016-06-19T03:53:00Z")
For neocons there’s not much to dislike. when has she ever gone against them? You know, aside from campaign rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/172 "2016-06-19T04:01:33Z")
Pro-choice, healthcare reform, environmental protection, women’s rights, gun control… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/173 "2016-06-19T04:14:25Z")
Neocons are foreign policy oriented. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/174 "2016-06-19T05:30:34Z")
She helped set the table for the Iran nukes treaty. There were a decent number of Israel-supporting Democrats not in favor of that, let alone Neocons. Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/175 "2016-06-19T05:51:11Z")
She started the negotiations but never made the concessions required to get a deal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/176 "2016-06-19T06:32:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She started the negotiations but never made the concessions required to get a deal. Well, [Politifact says](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-she-helped-usher-iran-negotia/) > [@](#): > > During her first 18 months as secretary, the State Department was at the helm of a global effort to increase sanctions on Iran, culminating in an important U.N. resolution. Clinton was personally involved in these diplomatic efforts and pushed them publicly. And experts said these sanctions, on top of other sanctions passed before and after, were crucial to getting Iran to the negotiating table. Pretty sure no neocon does that, certainly as well as Clinton did - in the article I linked to, Patrick Clawson, senior fellow and research director at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy says he is “not a fan nor a political supporter of Clinton,” but still agrees that she was a pivotal player in making it happen. So yeah, you’re wrong again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/177 "2016-06-19T06:43:50Z")
That’s actually conservative doctrine: peace through strength. Force your enemies to the negotiating table. Sure, there are subtle differences in Clinton’s approach, and after all she was working for Barack Obama. But even with a decent Republican opponent, the differences between Clinton and neocons are pretty insignificant. Foreign policy has long been an area where all the worries are on your side. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/178 "2016-06-19T10:30:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s actually conservative doctrine: peace through strength. Force your enemies to the negotiating table. > > Sure, there are subtle differences in Clinton’s approach, and after all she was working for Barack Obama. But even with a decent Republican opponent, the differences between Clinton and neocons are pretty insignificant. Foreign policy has long been an area where all the worries are on your side. We’ll see if she starts a bunch of wars and gets thousands of Americans killed. I don’t think she will, so I expect the chickenhawk warmonger coward neocons to criticize her just as they have Obama. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/179 "2016-06-19T10:43:21Z")
In that respect she is different. Clinton started the “bomb only” doctrine and Obama took it and put it on steroids. I imagine Clinton will take us from bombing seven countries to a dozen or so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/180 "2016-06-19T11:13:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In that respect she is different. Clinton started the “bomb only” doctrine and Obama took it and put it on steroids. I imagine Clinton will take us from bombing seven countries to a dozen or so. That’s by far the most important respect. And that’s why the neocons are so fucking terrible - they show no regard for risking the lives of service men and women. Some of us actually value their lives (not a shot against you - just against the coward warmongers like Kristol). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873.md?page=10)