# Hillary fans don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 20, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205 "2016-05-20T03:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/261 "2016-05-26T10:52:57Z")
A Trump Supreme Court wouldn’t stop at marriage or reproductive rights; they’d go much deeper into challenging all of the legislation from the Progressive Era going forward. Labor rights? The right to collective bargaining? Worker safety standards? Minimum wage laws? Social security? Medicare? A Trump court would finally have the chance to repeal the sins of FDR. A republican party, bankrolled by billionaires and now represented by one, would be anti-democratic. They would go even further - challenging current conventions on things like basic equal protection under the laws. Those conventions we now take for granted were once not at all conventions, but controversies. They would again become ‘controversies’ in the eyes of a conservative-leaning court system. ---
**Author:** ![Anna1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@Anna1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anna1982)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/262 "2016-05-26T10:56:53Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yes, how dare people not vote for a candidate who shares none of their fundamental positions? > > OK, let’s say you are a pro-war, pro-undeclared-war, pro-assassination, pro-imperialism, pro-Obamacare, pro-choice, pro-gay, Hillary Clinton voter. And to you someone who is opposed to war, opposed to continuing a war against the express directives of Congress, or at any point was in favor of self-determination in any part of Latin America is just _beyond the pale._ And advocates of Medicare For All need to die so they can get off your beautifully manicured lawn. > > So you will _tolerate_ anti-war voters voting Democrat, even if it means you get a Congressional majority & have to take responsibility for passing laws (:eek:). And if they are also pro-gay and/or pro-choice, you feel _entitled_ to their votes, if they vote at all. > > But there are all these “young” progressives. As in, young enough to still have children under 25, and poor enough that their children might actually enlist to fight in a dirty, dirty war like poor people. And they’re not so fond of the American war machine, because those are their friends and neighbors, their own children, themselves getting dragged off into foreign adventures by the likes of the Bushes and Clintons. And they are probably pro-gay, and they may be pro-choice, but they are not really pro-imperialism and pro-war, and if you are, well, they think you can go vote GOP then, because the GOP purged its anti-war voters back in 2003, right? \*There’s \*your home, as far as they’re concerned. > > And they have _opinions_ about student debt (Who do you know who’s a student? Oh, some of your straight friends might have grandchildren, right?) and about Wall Street’s financialization of the economy (which you assume is fine and good and pays your pension). And you don’t get any of that _because you are an out of touch rich old gay man._ > > So they look at Hillary, with her Wall Street ties, and her Walmart ties, and her private prison ties, and her chumminess with the Bushes and the Kissingers (like, literally, she spends the holidays with Henry Kissinger, he is a \*close \*personal friend, I am not even making this up), and to them, Hillary Clinton is not a progressive. She’s not a squishy ally. She’s the other side. She’s a part of the _problems._ > > So, yeah, she’s pro-gay. And she has black friends, sort of. For a wealthy, conservative, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, ruling class matron, she’s a little, ooh, “liberal” (gasp!)–but only by those standards. As far as the larger society is concerned, she’s practically a Bush. > > To you, she’s an ally, like a gay-friendly Habsburg. > > To the commoners, she’s another enemy, like all of your pro-war, profiteering, financialized faction. And they don’t accept that anti-war, pro-socialized-medicine populist democrats need to line up beyond a pro-war, pro-profiteering aristocrat, just because she calls herself a “Democrat.” > > They are talking about a revolution, and they are looking to the Democratic Party as a vehicle. But even by the standards of old-time New Deal Democrats, Hillary Clinton is a bit–classist, untrustworthy, and even backward. She could steal that vehicle from them for the next eight years. And then what? > > Yeah, I guess I will take Trump over her. Sorry. – U have ur opinion, I have mine. U can keep yours, I’ll take mine ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/263 "2016-05-26T13:08:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Your priorities are so skewed that it hurts. Oh, you’d hate to see the Dems saddled with a particular leader? Moreso than see _everyone_ saddled with Donald Trump? > > Just to name the most obvious example: Trump’s shortlist is full of people who want to overturn both Obergfell and Roe v Wade. He essentially has one guaranteed slot, with not bad odds he’ll get another in the next 4 years (Ginsburg ain’t getting any younger). Electing President Trump very well may mean the end of a woman’s right to choose and the end of marriage equality in America. Now, I don’t know about you, but I can’t think of _anything_ that’s so horrible about Clinton that makes that worthwhile - and literally any criticism you could throw at her, Trump is worse. This is much my thinking. While I find Hillary contemptible as a person, at least she can be counted on to preserve the progress we have made. Trump, and the GOP as a whole, are actively and explicitly dedicated to annihiliating our freedoms and installing fascism, racism, sexism, and theocracy as the order of the day. A Clinton presidency, no matter how unappealing, is still better than the candidate who explicitly wants to murder journalists and deport 11 million people. ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/264 "2016-05-26T13:16:28Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Trump, and the GOP as a whole, are actively and explicitly dedicated to annihiliating our freedoms and installing fascism, racism, sexism, and theocracy as the order of the day… No more than people like you. You know, the ones propagating this myth. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/265 "2016-05-26T13:25:41Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Wow, **BPC.** You really think that’s the line you want to lead with? He might overturn _Obergefell_ and _Roe?_ > > One, that’s obvious Democratic Party boilerplate for any GOP candidate, and exactly as ridiculous as the campaign spots my US Senator is running claiming that Hillary wants “European-style” socialized medicine. Two, if that were even true, for many of your countrymen, those would be reasons to vote\* for \*him! > > This is not your trust fund baby hippie-dippy free love paradise. Let _Obergefell_ go, let \*Roe \*go. Talk about _Lochner._ Talk about _Marquette._ Get your head out of your crotch and talk about income and opportunity, or you are going to lose. > > Hopeless cases. > > Yeah, you don’t get it. And neither does Hillary, she never did. That’s why Trump will win. So, you’re a straight white guy who only cares about your money. I’m surprised you didn’t come out for Trump earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/266 "2016-05-26T13:27:44Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > No more than people like you. You know, the ones propagating this myth. What myth? These are explicit things Trump has promised and the platform of the GOP as a whole. You would have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to listen to them and come to any other conclusion. I don’t recall any democrat promising to deport 11 million people, build a giant border wall, make all Americans medicine subject to Christian fundamentalism, or ban an entire religion from entering the US, or threaten to kill journalists. These are EXPLICIT things the Republicans have promised. In what possible sense is this incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/267 "2016-05-26T13:31:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yeah, that line is a sticking point for most of the posters in this thread. I could say it was a bit of angry hyperbole, which it was. But that said… > > Politicians are not positions. Not really. Trump’s current stated positions don’t interest me nearly as much as his temperament. He seems to fly off the handle and say whatever damn fool thing comes into his head, in real time, without thinking it through. You go on to say _“I’m sad about the mass deportations and the incompetent foreign policy to come.”_ Yeah, one of those things is not like the other; we can’t afford an incompetent foreign policy; it doesn’t belong in the same _sentence_ as this or that position. If you’re already granting that inadequacy, then I’m mystified as to how anything else matters; you mention a position that saddens you – but I’d reject a candidate who offered positions I _like_, if I believed him incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/268 "2016-05-26T13:57:36Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I don’t recall any democrat promising to deport 11 million people Not an example of racism, xenophobia, etc. > [@](#): > > build a giant border wall Not an example of racism, xenophobia, etc. > [@](#): > > make all Americans medicine subject to Christian fundamentalism, or Tell me more. > [@](#): > > ban an entire religion from entering the US Xenophobia is an irrational fear. There is nothing irrational about this considering refugee violence in Europe. > [@](#): > > or threaten to kill journalists …what? Source? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/269 "2016-05-26T16:53:30Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > Xenophobia is an irrational fear. There is nothing irrational about this considering refugee violence in Europe. The irrational part is thinking it will make a whit of difference. ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/270 "2016-05-26T17:45:19Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > The irrational part is thinking it will make a whit of difference. Viktor Orban’s fence says you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/271 "2016-05-26T17:47:34Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > Viktor Orban’s fence says you’re wrong. Fagin? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/272 "2016-05-26T17:56:02Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > …Xenophobia is an irrational fear. There is nothing irrational about this considering refugee violence in Europe… Banning a billion people, the overwhelmingly vast majority of whom are not terrorists, to prevent the _possible_ entry of a few terrorists? That’s completely irrational, not to mention un-American and unworkable. ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/273 "2016-05-26T18:15:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Banning a billion people, the overwhelmingly vast majority of whom are not terrorists, to prevent the _possible_ entry of a few terrorists? That’s completely irrational, not to mention un-American and unworkable. If it were on a whim or for no reason at all, yes, it would be irrational, you are right. But it’s not without reason. [Migrants commit a lot of crime](http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime). There’s [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006713/paris-attacks-europe-migrant-crisis-terrorist-abdelhamid-abaaoud.html) too. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/274 "2016-05-26T18:43:20Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > Viktor Orban’s fence says you’re wrong. Sounds to me like you are conflating two different Trump policy trainwrecks (easy to do, there are so many). ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/275 "2016-05-26T18:58:33Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Sounds to me like you are conflating two different Trump policy trainwrecks (easy to do, there are so many). Oh! You got me! I mentioned the fence when I really should have mentioned that he’s banned Islamisation. You’re good! No, really, do you actually have a counter point? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/276 "2016-05-26T19:01:48Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > If it were on a whim or for no reason at all, yes, it would be irrational, you are right. But it’s not without reason. [Migrants commit a lot of crime](http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime). There’s [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006713/paris-attacks-europe-migrant-crisis-terrorist-abdelhamid-abaaoud.html) too. But he didn’t say he’d just ban Syrian migrants – he said all Muslims. So tourists, family members of Americans, etc. That’s irrational and bigoted (and un-American, in my opinion). ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/277 "2016-05-26T19:05:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But he didn’t say he’d just ban Syrian migrants – he said all Muslims. So tourists, family members of Americans, etc. That’s irrational and bigoted (and un-American, in my opinion). …do only Syrian migrants commit crimes or something? What the hell does their country of origin matter? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/278 "2016-05-26T19:09:07Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > …do only Syrian migrants commit crimes or something? What the hell does their country of origin matter? Do you think of tourists, and people visiting family, and people traveling for business, as migrants? Because citing any information about migrants only would apply to migrants, and Trump has proposed banning all Muslims, whether they’re migrants or not (and the vast majority of Muslims who travel to America are not “migrants”). ---
**Author:** ![ATLHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@ATLHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ATLHawk)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/279 "2016-05-26T19:12:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think of tourists, and people visiting family, and people traveling for business, as migrants? Because citing any information about migrants only would apply to migrants, and Trump has proposed banning all Muslims, whether they’re migrants or not (and the vast majority of Muslims who travel to America are not “migrants”). And Abdelhamid Abaaoud was born in Belgium. Based on what Manafort’s said, I’m sure he’ll “soften it” to ban migrants only until a long term solution can be created. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/280 "2016-05-26T19:17:57Z")
> [@ATLHawk](#): > > If it were on a whim or for no reason at all, yes, it would be irrational, you are right. But it’s not without reason. [Migrants commit a lot of crime](http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime). There’s [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006713/paris-attacks-europe-migrant-crisis-terrorist-abdelhamid-abaaoud.html) too. The number of crimes committed by migrants increases when 1.5 million migrants are added to the population? What a scoop! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=15)