# Hillary fans don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 20, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205 "2016-05-20T03:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/81 "2016-05-20T18:48:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I find Sanders somewhat irritating, and the extreme among his followers are downright maddening. But I think what happens then is that it’s easy for me, being irritated, to then think “Wait, what they’re doing is so much worse than irritating. It’s destructive. So I’m not being mean when I want him to shut up and go away. And I’m not trying to silence anyone! I’m a liberal! Free speech! I just want him to go away for the sake of all that is good and right and just.” > > Once I can feel that I’m not just personally irritated but am actually a defender of something spiffy like justice or progressivism I can then vent my spleen about Sanders while saying I’m not just being petty. I’m being all noble and shit. I’m thinking only of you, America! > > Now, I think some of what’s going down, the Nevada stuff for example, is objectively just wrong, ugly, and dangerous. But I think some of the rhetoric starting a few months ago is less “This is actually a huge deal” and more “I’m fucking annoyed but will make a huge deal of this to feel like my annoyance is more fair.” I don’t know about all that. Sander’s and to some extent Trump’s supporters are right in attacking the establishment to the degree they do. They want change and this is one mechanism of enacting change. Will it be counterproductive? That’s only knowable in retrospect. Now I think Sanders is a goddamn nut and his economic policies are clear lunacy but the methodology of his supporters may swing the pendulum in the direction they like. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/82 "2016-05-20T19:10:49Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The notion that some here have made, that Trump would be better than Hillary because Trump would be worse for the country and therefore lead to a progressive revolution is clearly fucking insane. The country is like the Titanic, with the elite first class passengers up top, and the third class passengers packed below. How do the third class passengers benefit from an iceberg? I read an editorial/comment on TPM today that equated this idea with comic book reboots. Who cares if you fuck up Superman? You can just restart from whatever point you want! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/83 "2016-05-20T19:32:16Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I think the Green Party is really where the Sanders types are coming from, but without Nader, its kind of hard to technically be a Green. Though Nader was the Green Party’s nominee in 1992, he was not actually a member – he pointed that out to me at a public event that year. (The Pubs and Dems have no “members” as such, but some third parties do.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/84 "2016-05-20T19:40:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The notion that some here have made, that Trump would be better than Hillary because Trump would be worse for the country and therefore lead to a progressive revolution is clearly fucking insane. The country is like the Titanic, with the elite first class passengers up top, and the third class passengers packed below. How do the third class passengers benefit from an iceberg? A revolution is not analogous to an iceberg in that situation, it is analogous to a mutiny. The same question applies, of course. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/85 "2016-05-20T21:28:08Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > If not voting for Hillary is a vote for Trump, and not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary, then it all cancels out and I can vote for neither without guilt! You’re still not quite getting the part where one of them \*will \*become President. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/86 "2016-05-20T21:56:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t know about all that. Sander’s and to some extent Trump’s supporters are right in attacking the establishment to the degree they do. They want change and this is one mechanism of enacting change. Will it be counterproductive? That’s only knowable in retrospect. > > Now I think Sanders is a goddamn nut and his economic policies are clear lunacy but the methodology of his supporters may swing the pendulum in the direction they like. It depends on what kinds of changes you’re seeking. Are you looking to keep essentially the same system but change some policies in that system? Then fine, go ahead and run for political office. Are you opposing the system itself? Then you need to gather your followers together and start building up a revolutionary band. The system won’t kill itself; you can’t abolish it from the inside. You’re going to have to overthrow the system from the outside. Or at least declare independence and start up your own country with your new system. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/87 "2016-05-20T21:59:12Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And the Clinton campaign thanks me for not voting Trump! If not voting for Hillary is a vote for Trump, and not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary, then it all cancels out and I can vote for neither without guilt! Thanks for the encouragement. If you decide not to vote, you’re telling both candidates they can safely ignore you and your beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/88 "2016-05-20T22:06:52Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Hillary is indistinguishable from Trump. And so is Bernie. You know why? Because he HAS NO FUCKING SUPPORT ANYWHERE IN THE US POLITICAL STRUCTURE. He doesn’t have any Governors, Reps, or Senators that feel like they owe him shit and they won’t risk their jobs for stuff he wants. Like it or not, that’s the reality. If Bernie wants a fucking revolution, he needs to get people that like the same things he likes elected to (lower) office. Otherwise, it’s just a cult of personality and he will be almost powerless in the White House. He won’t get anything passed, he won’t get anybody nominated, and he won’t be able to do anything that the next President can’t undo with the stroke of a pen on his/her first day in office. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/89 "2016-05-20T22:45:16Z")
Those in favor of a revolution should remember that the Republicans are the ones with all the guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/90 "2016-05-20T22:52:12Z")
Eh, let’s read “revolution” charitably. Once the masses wake up from their false consciousness the 1% will have their hearts grow 3 sizes and so we won’t need guns and bombs and stuff, man. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/91 "2016-05-20T22:52:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Those in favor of a revolution should remember that the Republicans are the ones with all the guns. Grin! You should visit California! I know plenty of liberal Democrats who have guns…often plural! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/92 "2016-05-20T22:57:03Z")
Look how Hitlery is turning us against each other!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/93 "2016-05-20T23:56:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Those in favor of a revolution should remember that the Republicans are the ones with all the guns. Conservatives should remember those millenias they deride make up more than half of our armed forces. Members of the armed forces tend to be armed too and are statistically better at hitting what they aim for. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/94 "2016-05-20T23:59:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > People like you gave us 8 years of Bush. Regarding the amount of war during that administration, would you describe it as above average, below average, or just about right? > > Seriously, I’d like to see this as a joke, but if you’re declaring tacit support for Trump, you don’t give two shits about war or imperialism. And that’s the most charitable view. > > I don’t know your race, age, or gender, but I’ll wager that you’re in a class of people who can withstand the privations of a Trump presidency better than many. Young white male? US Citizen? Already got your degree? How close am I? I’m going to say that the reason that we got 8 years of Bush is due to the approximately 230 million people who didn’t vote for another candidate. Why do the 182 million non voters get a free pass? Fact is, the parties want to claim that these 182 million people support their cause when they don’t support anything enough to vote for it. One things for sure, the vast majorities of Americans didn’t find a Bush administration worth voting against. Twice. That’s the truth. Make voting mandatory then you can blame people for who they voted for. The fact is neither party has the majority of the country’s support. At best they have their acceptance. Frankly, I have no sympathy for these non voting people anymore. I’m not about to dedicate my vote to “saving” them from their apathy. That’s why I can understand voting for the worst candidate. Enough of that is going to be the only thing that’s going to break through the apathy that grips the majority. If it doesn’t then again, why bother to save them? On your list, I meet one criteria. I am a US citizen. I can endure the privations of a Trump presidency better than many Americans though, I’d imagine. There are so many around the world living far worse realities. If these people can endure what they have to it’s insulting to think I can’t endure a downturn here. Even if this is false, again, why does the majority of the country get a pass here? They sure seem to disagree with you where it counts the voting booth. Finally, I’m not necessarily going to vote Trump. I’ve considered it because it would be the most entertaining option which is the one thing that would benefit me. Seeing the status quo continue isn’t entertaining. It’s depressing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/95 "2016-05-21T00:13:51Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Finally, I’m not necessarily going to vote Trump. I’ve considered it because it would be the most entertaining option which is the one thing that would benefit me. Hardtack and sea monkeys for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/96 "2016-05-21T00:21:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Hardtack and sea monkeys for everyone. I always wanted sea monkeys and was never allowed to have them when I was a kid. I fully support brine shrimp for everyone. Finally, an idea I can vote FOR. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/97 "2016-05-21T00:38:54Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Conservatives should remember those millenias they deride make up more than half of our armed forces. Members of the armed forces tend to be armed too and are statistically better at hitting what they aim for. Right, and no one is more revolutionary than someone who’s volunteered for military service for their country.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/98 "2016-05-21T01:01:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you decide not to vote, you’re telling both candidates they can safely ignore you and your beliefs. And, if you fancy yourself too pure to simply vote for the lesser evil, you merely make it easier for the \*greater \*evil to win. Is there any question in your mind as to which is which? ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/99 "2016-05-21T01:17:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And, if you fancy yourself too pure to simply vote for the lesser evil, you merely make it easier for the \*greater \*evil to win. > > Is there any question in your mind as to which is which? I’d say rather it merely makes you a part of the majority of the country. Full stop. Most people simply don’t think one side is all that much more evil than the other. Those are the people you should look at and ask why they don’t vote and give them a compelling reason to do so. Seems it would be more productive than shaming someone normally engaged in the process not supporting your candidate. To parapharase a politician, when your choice is being shot or being poision you’re going to go after those who don’t make a choice? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/100 "2016-05-21T01:29:05Z")
Because there are a lot more people who think that the choice is more like being shot or drinking cod liver oil, at worst, and you’re telling them that if they get shot, there’s a chance that they’ll be operated on and become bionic sometime in the next decade after a series of painful surgeries without anesthesia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=6)