# Hillary fans don't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 20, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205 "2016-05-20T03:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/101 "2016-05-21T01:48:10Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Because there are a lot more people who think that the choice is more like being shot or drinking cod liver oil, at worst, and you’re telling them that if they get shot, there’s a chance that they’ll be operated on and become bionic sometime in the next decade after a series of painful surgeries without anesthesia. Actually, he seems to be saying that he’ll choose for them to get shot because it’s just hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/102 "2016-05-21T01:49:57Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Conservatives should remember those millenias they deride make up more than half of our armed forces. Members of the armed forces tend to be armed too and are statistically better at hitting what they aim for. As if the “millenials” that make up the military are the same caliber of millenial that lives in his/her/zes parent’s basement? The military is almost a majority Southern and Texan at this point and are far more conservative than the millenial that runs crying for a safe space at a the mere mention of the word “Trump.” ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/103 "2016-05-21T02:01:32Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Actually, he seems to be saying that he’ll choose for them to get shot because it’s just hilarious. Thanks for answering for me but I had already answered in my post. \*\*Most people simply don’t think one side is all that much more evil than the other. \*\* Where is the proof that they do? I can be convinced. I can tell you it’s certainly not at the ballot box which is the place it would matter. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/104 "2016-05-21T02:15:44Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I can be convinced. You said in another thread that you wouldn’t vote for Clinton because some Clinton supporters were mean to some Sanders supporters. But you’d vote for Sanders even though some Sanders supporters have been mean to some Clinton supporters. In this thread, you said you might vote for Trump because that would provide you some entertainment. All I can say to that is that I cannot be convinced that it’s worthwhile having a political discussion with you when those are your starting points. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/105 "2016-05-21T02:24:33Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Pull up a chair, young’uns and let me tell you what ideological purity gets you. > > 1964 – The conservative wing of the Republican overpowered the establishment and got Barry Goldwater nominated. He lost to LBJ in a landslide and four years later, the Republicans got Richard Nixon. > > 1968 – After the assassination of Robert Kennedy, progressive Democrats couldn’t stomach Hubert Humphrey. As a result, the entire nation got Richard Nixon. > > 1980 – Ted Kennedy challenged Jimmy Carter for the nomination and snubbed Carter after Carter won. The Kennedy supporters sat on their hands and were rewarded with Ronald Reagan. > > 1992 – Conservative Republicans decided Bush the Elder was a tax-raising traitor to the conservative cause and sat on their hands. They were rewarded with eight years of Bill Clinton. > > 2000 – Gore v. Bush v. Nader. > > So go ahead. Be ideologically pure. Prepare to live with the consequences. This. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/106 "2016-05-21T02:31:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You said in another thread that you wouldn’t vote for Clinton because some Clinton supporters were mean to some Sanders supporters. But you’d vote for Sanders even though some Sanders supporters have been mean to some Clinton supporters. > > In this thread, you said you might vote for Trump because that would provide you some entertainment. > > All I can say to that is that I cannot be convinced that it’s worthwhile having a political discussion with you when those are your starting points. Actually, it’s an evolving situation so these aren’t exactly starting points but as far as it goes, it doesn’t really matter. I started as you stated in the other post deciding not to vote for Clinton then I reconsidered because I saw on television where Arizona might be a swing state in which case the choice between Clinton and Trump becomes a choice I have to consider. I merely wrote the truth in this thread, I have considered it. I won’t lie to convince you to debate me. I’m not leaning towards voting for Trump as I said but fair to say right now I have no idea what I’m going to do in November. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/107 "2016-05-21T02:37:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > If Bernie wants a fucking revolution, he needs to get people that like the same things he likes elected to (lower) office. Otherwise, it’s just a cult of personality and he will be almost powerless in the White House… I agree that a President Sanders would likely be a failure for the reason you state. However your phrasing is peculiar: Bernie “needs to get people … elected.” You make it sound like it’s _Bernie’s_ fault that people don’t vote for progressive candidates. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/108 "2016-05-21T02:51:53Z")
No, he’s saying it should be the focus of his attention. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/109 "2016-05-21T02:58:20Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I support Clinton because she isn’t anti-nuclear. Being anti-nuclear is downright irresponsible and very dangerous now, given how bad global warming has gotten. Sanders, on the other hand, has anti-nuclear nonsense written into his platform. > > So, how does that make me an amoral shill? No, that specific objection to Bernie I respect. It’s actually based on a real issue, and a serious one. I’m OK with _you._ _You’re_ not telling me that he’s an evil commie. And you’re not telling yourself that somehow Hillary Clinton’s sheer expertise can somehow make up for her corruption, and thus accomplish progressive ends that she clearly has no interest in. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/110 "2016-05-21T03:03:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I think what you have to “get” is that right now Sanders is pretty much encouraging and facilitating the sort of supporters exemplified by the op and that increasingly that is a louder (not more numerous but nevertheless louder) part of “the message” this loud subgroup of Sanders supporters are trying to send and plan on bringing to the convention. By virtue of Sanders support for (and often personal messaging of) the primacy of the Crooked Hillary the Horrible, Big Business toady and stooge, stealing the election from “The People” message, along with a focus on how the Democratic Party is the enemy establishment that they must take on, the op’s perspective is the message that is now being claimed as being sent by support for Sanders. :rolleyes: I’m not working for Bernie Sanders. Bernie and Hillary have both mostly played it smart and tried to keep the party together. What I’m trying to tell you is that the Democratic Party can’t win with a “Bush Doctrine” neocon at the top of the ticket. You fell for the line that she’s more electable, but by picking her you just alienated 20% or more of the coalition you needed to win. I’m sorry, but this is bigger than me not voting for her; even if I campaigned for her, she’d lose my state and most states. She’s not likable enough nor credible enough, and she’s _not on our side._ ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/111 "2016-05-21T03:14:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You said in another thread that you wouldn’t vote for Clinton because some Clinton supporters were mean to some Sanders supporters. But you’d vote for Sanders even though some Sanders supporters have been mean to some Clinton supporters. > > In this thread, you said you might vote for Trump because that would provide you some entertainment. > > All I can say to that is that I cannot be convinced that it’s worthwhile having a political discussion with you when those are your starting points. One more little detail. I am absolutely against the tripe that the Bernie supporters pulled in Nevada and his reaction to it. I am in agreement with him in the vast majority of our views but the difference is a killer. My respect for the Bernie campaign has gone way down lately and for this and other reasons, I’m not a Bernie for president supporter but I haven’t been in that camp for a while but just didn’t want to admit it to myself since it’s hard to let go of a dream that you mostly share. Like with everything though, reality eventually hits. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/112 "2016-05-21T03:20:59Z")
I would prefer Sanders to Clinton as President. I have already had my opportunity to express that opinion at the ballot box, and I have done so. Having done so, I am now (or rather, will be soon) presented with another question: Do I prefer Clinton or Trump? And when the opportunity comes, I will express my opinion on that question at the ballot box, too. This isn’t complicated. At each stage of the process, you only have to make one decision. As things happened, Sanders is no longer one of the options. Choose from among those who are. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/113 "2016-05-21T03:27:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The OP has a lot of misinformation in it. That’s fair. > [@](#): > > Now, I have a Facebook friend who lost a dear friend to violence during the Honduran coup. His rage and grief at Clinton for supporting this coup is personal. I don’t expect him to swallow his anger and vote for her. > > But if you don’t have an overwhelming emotional reason to vote against her, I expect you to be rational. And saying that you agree with Clinton on nothing is completely irrational. I am being rational. I am being American in this. Not North-American, but _American._ Anyone who is against the Hispanoamerican Left to the degree that HRC or Mitt Romney is, is against me and I against them. I will not suffer through eight years of a right-wing murderer & imperialist trying to command the loyalty of leftists and progressives. In the immediate term, Clinton may be preferable to Trump, sure. But a Clinton win delays any leftward or counter-imperialist redirection within the Democratic Party. A Trump win, on the other hand, delays the ascendancy of the anti-government fanatic Rafael Edward Cruz. I think the play for the long game, for me, is to support neither Trump (bad immediately) nor Clinton (whose corrupt reputation and general regressiveness both hobble progress as I understand it). I am being rational. This is politics. Withholding my vote from someone who would damage the USA Left, and discredit me for voting for her, is rational. Bernie was not a perfect candidate, but he was at least credibly on the progressive side. Hillary just lines her own pockets. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/114 "2016-05-21T03:50:11Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That’s fair. > > I am being rational. > > I am being American in this. Not North-American, but _American._ Anyone who is against the Hispanoamerican Left to the degree that HRC or Mitt Romney is, is against me and I against them. > > I will not suffer through eight years of a right-wing murderer & imperialist trying to command the loyalty of leftists and progressives. > > In the immediate term, Clinton may be preferable to Trump, sure. But a Clinton win delays any leftward or counter-imperialist redirection within the Democratic Party. A Trump win, on the other hand, delays the ascendancy of the anti-government fanatic Rafael Edward Cruz. > > I think the play for the long game, for me, is to support neither Trump (bad immediately) nor Clinton (whose corrupt reputation and general regressiveness both hobble progress as I understand it). > > I am being rational. This is politics. Withholding my vote from someone who would damage the USA Left, and discredit me for voting for her, is rational. > > Bernie was not a perfect candidate, but he was at least credibly on the progressive side. Hillary just lines her own pockets. ☹ That post isn’t selling me on your position being rational. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/115 "2016-05-21T03:53:59Z")
Rational, sure. Reasonable, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/116 "2016-05-21T03:57:04Z")
If a Clinton win delays the Democratic party’s leftward movement, I don’t see how a Trump win would be any better in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/117 "2016-05-21T04:03:31Z")
Hillary fans don’t get it, only '90s kids will ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/118 "2016-05-21T04:21:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No, you _don’t_ get it. Sanders right now is still occasionally, begrudgingly, saying that Clinton would not be as bad as Trump. But his focus is on the evils of the Democratic establishment. His rhetoric explicitly empowers the POV of the op and states that the rigged party is at fault for it. Except we’re not talking about some abstract Bernier supporter. We’re talking about the OP. Is it your position that the OP is not responsible for his own opinion since Sanders has “empowered” that opinion? I certainly don’t. I hold the OP fully responsible for his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/119 "2016-05-21T04:53:59Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Anyways, **foolsguinea** , vote for who ever you want. Just don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. With your (and other BernieOrBust folks) irrational bleating, I don’t care about your vote. I’d rather not accept it (just as I’d rather not accept the votes of Klan members). Start your own party rather than trying to hijack mine. _Your_ party? Are you Andrew Jackson? Fine. I suppose I will. Maybe we can finally get your face off the money. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205/120 "2016-05-21T05:07:59Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So the problem with people today is that they’re not uncomfortable enough for a revolution. You want a revolution, so you want people to be more uncomfortable? Seriously, that’s your plan? No. That is not my plan. Progressives can try to fight over state legislatures and Congress, because the White House is a lost cause. And maybe in four years we get a better Democratic candidate for President. That person doesn’t have to be a Trotskyist, although it would be nice if they were a little more left of center. They just have to be less of an obvious disaster than Hillary Clinton. Seriously, she’s a magnet for witch hunts, between her cozy ties to Goldman Sachs, the Clinton Foundation, the illegal war in Libya, the Benghazi fracas, her husband’s suspicious last-minute pardons in 2000-2001–not to mention old business from Arkansas. I was worried that she’d win and hobble the party for eight years. I’m _relieved_ that she can’t. I’m \*annoyed \*that at this point she’s presumptively the nominee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-fans-dont-get-it/755205.md?page=7)