# Hillary for president **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443 "2003-08-29T16:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/41 "2003-09-01T16:17:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by newcrasher \* > \*\*Why is a tax cut called a risky tax “scheme” a la 2000 liberal propaganda? \*\* Because it _was_ a scheme. It was a budgetary shell game which robbed other programs to funnel huge give aways to the rich. The “riskiness” is now self-evident. Bush’s tax cuts for the rich have now taken us from the most prosperous economy in US history right down the toilet into a depression. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/42 "2003-09-01T19:49:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Because it was a scheme. Just like Hillary’s “plan” _is_ a scheme. See, DtC, I can state things to be so, just as you can. I also hereby declare the sky to be orange, and Zima to be tasty! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/43 "2003-09-01T22:20:30Z")
Well, personally, I’m pretty sure the tax cut wasn’t the _soundest_ fisical thinking… though it does seem to have funneled money directly to people who will spend it. Of course, it was _my_ money that was funneled. And now they’re going to ask for _more_ of it to pay for Iraq. Sounds pretty darn much like a democratic redistribution of funds welfare scheme to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/44 "2003-09-01T23:10:27Z")
Note to non-US’ers: “Scheme” has connotations here that make the word not synonymous with “plan”. It implies secrecy, and real goals that are not the stated ones. In political discourse, it’s spin. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/45 "2003-09-01T23:57:40Z")
Ignoring the screeching baboons of the left and right… It’s too late for Hillary to enter the 2004 race. For all practical purposes, there isn’t enough time left for a candidate to enter the Presidential race. Moreover, it’s unlikely that she’ll be a Vice-Presidential candidate, as two of the top three polling candidates for the Democratic Presidential nomination are from the same part of the country. As for 2008, it’s far too early to comment. Of course, if a Dem wins in 2004, she’s more or less SOL. Another important thing to remember with 2008 is that she has to run for re-election in 2006. If she loses her bid for re-election , any chances of her as a Presidential candidate are “gone in the wind”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/46 "2003-09-02T00:27:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Governor Quinn \* > \*\*Another important thing to remember with 2008 is that she has to run for re-election in 2006. If she loses her bid for re-election , any chances of her as a Presidential candidate are “gone in the wind”. \*\* You mean you won’t have Hillary to kick around any more? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/47 "2003-09-02T00:40:19Z")
Or, any rate, no Hillary in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/48 "2003-09-02T00:43:41Z")
Nixon lost his senate race and then won the presidency…but of course he was Satan. Hillary doesn’t have those powers. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/49 "2003-09-02T01:01:07Z")
1. Nixon lost a bid for Governor of California, and, 2. His successful run for the Presidency was six years later. Which would mean that, if Hillary lost in 2006, you should ignore her until 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/50 "2003-09-02T01:37:01Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Nixon lost a bid for Governor of California Ok, thanks for the correction. I thought it was for the Senate. In my defense, I wasn’t born until '66, so I was basically just going off my own foggy memory of that Oliver Stone movie. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/51 "2003-09-02T03:02:11Z")
Scree! Scree! Ook! That said, I think Hillary’s got a good chance in '06. She’s done pretty well insofar as A: Staying invisible, and B: disaster relief dosh. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/52 "2003-09-02T03:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Education? Really? Bush is a dummy who got into Yale and Harvard as a legacy. Hillary went Wellsley and Yale on her own academic achievement. They both have graduate degrees but Hillary was smarter and had a better GPA.** > > Yes really. When you get a masters degree from either Harvard or Yale let me know. You get bonus points if you can do it drunk. > \*\* > Experience? Let’s see…Shrub was a drunken fratboy well into his thirties. He has never had a job. He was a corrupt failure as an owner of an oil company (a company bought for him by his daddy’s friends) an inept baseball owner (he traded Sammy Sosa) a bought and paid for governorship (in which he distinguished himself mainly by setting records for executions and pollution) and, of course, a stolen presidency in which he has shown truly stupendous incompentence, corruption and destruction. \*\* > > Yah, BFD. Sosa’s gone flat and so have the Cubs. You REALLY want to compare Governerships between Texas and Arkansas. Bush was reelected in a Democratic state. The Clintons (they come as a pair), managed to keep Arkansas at the bottom of every leading indicator. > > Stolen election? . Do you even understand election laws? Who was the candidate who tried to divine votes from thin air? By law Gore was allowed to challenge both the counting machines and the butterfly ballot. Nowhere was it written that improperly voted ballots could be counted. The Supreme Court was unanimous in their decision regarding the Florida Supreme Court’s decision. It was completely illegal to take ballots from a tiny sample of the state (heavy Democratic precincts) and inject the miscounted votes back into the mix. Gore was perfectly aware of this. Had he asked for a STATE recount under the same conditions he would have won the court case (he still would have lost the state). The only split in the Supreme Court’s opinion was the time line. 4 of the 9 were willing to let it go on until Florida got it right. > \*\* > Hillary was head of the CDF, was a law professor at the University of Arkansas, was a corporate lawyer in the real world, founded several legal advocacy boards and committees for children and families and, of course, she was the President of the united States during the longest period of economic expansion of US history. > \*\* > Head of the Childrens Defense Fund? That’s about as prestigious and meaningful as being a board member for a Fortune 500 company. Corporate lawyer? It is virtually unheard of for a major law firm to give a partnership to someone in only a few years. She is either the smartest women in the world or… she was given a partnership in a law firm because of her connections with the Governor of Arkansas. Durring the Whitewater trials, the “smartest women in the world” denied knowledge of documents that had HER signature on them . > > Her election as Senator of NY was bought and paid for by her Husband’s favors which included pardons for her constituents. > > \*\* > (Btw, did Jeb ever find that little girl that he lost a couple of years ago or is he too busy making hypocritical deals to keep his druggie daughter out of prison?) \*\* I don’t know. Has Bill Clinton’s drug dealing brother done anything useful since he was PARDONED by Bill? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/53 "2003-09-02T03:21:42Z")
Well, hell, a man who wouldn’t pardon his own brother isn’t worth the fat it would take to fry him. You know whats truly chucklesome? If that pesky amendment wasn’t in the way, Bill C. could start campaigning tomorrow and GeeDubya wouldn’t know what hit him. As a President, luke warm, but as a politician…he has no peer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/54 "2003-09-02T04:36:14Z")
We know what Poindexter has been doing since his own pardon, don’t we? Well, we think we know. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/55 "2003-09-02T05:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Well, hell, a man who wouldn’t pardon his own brother isn’t worth the fat it would take to fry him. > \*\* A lot of people have said that and I don’t get it. If a member of my family screwed up their life to the point of prison I wouldn’t issue a pardon. The exception would be a bogus conviction. I must be the cruelest bastard in the Universe. I guess it was my upbringing. My parents held me accountable for my actions. I never got a “boys will be boys” waiver for a broken window. I got the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/56 "2003-09-02T14:09:14Z")
I find it amazing that Hillary spent 8 years trying to be President and only found herself being dragged under by Bill. They spent millions of dollars in court saying “they coulnd’t remember or they didn’t recall” important facts, her office “accidently” shredded important papers that she claimed she didn’t know was being destroyed, yet she goes on to write a book about her 8 years as President \ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/57 "2003-09-02T14:58:41Z")
Former White House Associate Counsel William Kennedy said that Livingstone was hired by Hilary Clinton - [http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/time/9607/08/main.shtml](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/time/9607/08/main.shtml) Allegations that Hilary sent her staff to remove documents from Vince Foster’s office. [http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product\_ID=261&CATID=1&GroupID=1](http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=261&CATID=1&GroupID=1) Hillary’s sudden expertise in cattle futures [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/january96/shields&gigot\_1-22.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/january96/shields&gigot_1-22.html) Wrongdoing in Whitewater profits [http://www-tech.mit.edu/V114/N20/clinton.20w.html](http://www-tech.mit.edu/V114/N20/clinton.20w.html) Not sure if you really wanted cites, or that was just a way to avoid the discussion. It would seem to me that you knew perfectly well what I was talking about, since you responded to the part of my post where Hilary was in possession of subpoena’ed documents after denying it. So, you made the following statement - > [@](#): > > Bush’s tax cuts for the rich have now taken us from the most prosperous economy in US history right down the toilet into a depression. Please provide cites proving that we are in a depression, and that Bush’s tax cuts caused it. A hint - we aren’t in a recession, so you might have trouble proving it. What was that about people throwing around “bullshit allegations”, again? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/58 "2003-09-03T01:35:31Z")
As a Dem, I have decided on Howard Dean. Should Hillary run this year, she’d be playing RFK to Dean’s Eugene McCarthy. RFK was a party hack in '68; Hillary would be this year’s party hack. Let Dean have it. I get the feeling from him that when he’s done with that useless, dangerous fool in the White House, GWB will be wishing he never left Austin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/59 "2003-09-03T02:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Former White House Associate Counsel William Kennedy said that Livingstone was hired by Hilary Clinton - > [http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/time/9607/08/main.shtml](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/time/9607/08/main.shtml) > > Allegations that Hilary sent her staff to remove documents from Vince Foster’s office. > [http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product\_ID=261&CATID=1&GroupID=1](http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=261&CATID=1&GroupID=1) > > Hillary’s sudden expertise in cattle futures > [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/january96/shields&gigot\_1-22.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/january96/shields&gigot_1-22.html) > > Wrongdoing in Whitewater profits > [http://www-tech.mit.edu/V114/N20/clinton.20w.html](http://www-tech.mit.edu/V114/N20/clinton.20w.html) > > Not sure if you really wanted cites, or that was just a way to avoid the discussion. It would seem to me that you knew perfectly well what I was talking about, since you responded to the part of my post where Hilary was in possession of subpoena’ed documents after denying it.\*\* Nope, she _found_ some documents after initially not being able to locate them (one set of basically innocuous billing records among thousands of documents that were subpoenaed. The records ultimately _supported_ her side of the story, so what was her motivation in hiding them? Y Your Newsmax link goes to an ad for a Barbara Olsen book, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove with that. I do know that a single security guard said that he saw one of Hillary’s staff walking out of some room with the billing records. That staff person denied that claim and passed multiple polygraph tests. The guard making the allegation refuse to take a polygraph. The fact that We now know that Arkansas state troopers were paid by Richard Mellon-Scaife to fabricate the “trooper gate” allegations out of whole cloth makes me think that it wouldn’t have been any harder to pay some sleazeball rent-a-cop to invent some bullshit story about Hillary staff person. Anyway, Ken Starr didn’t think the “filegate” allegations had any merit (or the “travelgate” allegations or any Clinton involvement in Whitewater) so I guess he must be a liar. Do you have a cite that Hillary did anything _illegal_ in the cattle trading story. Is there a law against getting lucky in the stock market? > [@](#): > > \*\*So, you made the following statement - > Please provide cites proving that we are in a depression, and that Bush’s tax cuts caused it. > > A hint - we aren’t in a recession, so you might have trouble proving it. > > What was that about people throwing around “bullshit allegations”, again? > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* That was a Freudian slip, i think. I meant to say "recession,’ not “depression.” I don’t know the technical definition of a recession but I do know the economy is in the shitter, the surplus is gone, the market is way down, unemployment is up, Bush’s oil cronies are gouging us more for gas every day and the administration has wasted billions of dollars on a pointless, illegal war. A war that has become an insoluble money pit-- a veritable “quagmire” if you will. I don’t know why its not a recession…probably the same reason we’re not in a guerilla war, cuz Bush says so…so I’ll just call it a “shitty economy.” How does that sound? ---
**Author:** ![IUHomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@IUHomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IUHomer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443/60 "2003-09-03T02:54:09Z")
She lied when she told Larry King she was not going to run for Senate in 2000. He even pointed this out to her recently when he had her on the show and she stated she was not going to run for president in 2004. ``` She's a "big name only" candidate just like Bush was in 2000. She has done nothing to prove she could be president. Democrats just like the idea of another Clinton on the ticket. Actually I think they don't even care about her so much as they want Bill back in the spotlight somehow. ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-for-president/198443.md?page=4)