# Hillary gives black folk the Byrd **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329 "2005-11-16T16:30:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/61 "2005-11-16T23:46:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So you acknowledge that his press conference words are the right ones, but discount their validity because they were public and an exercise in CYA. > > Yet the same could be said of Byrd and his “white nigger” comments. > > I choose to take both Byrd and Lott at the face value of their words explaining themselves. > > You may certainly decide that an unguarded moment is more revealing. But it seems to me you must then condemn Byrd as well. Choosing to accept Byrd’s explanations while discounting Lott’s seems to suggest a bit of bias on your part. It seems to me that one crucial difference is that Byrd hasn’t just apologized, he has taken actions to adress the wrongs he supported and advocated in his youth. Has Lott done the same? What’s his voting record on civil rights issues or other issues important to the black community? That would say a lot more about the guy than his apology, or the remarks that prompted the apology in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/62 "2005-11-17T00:08:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It seems to me that one crucial difference is that Byrd hasn’t just apologized, he has taken actions to adress the wrongs he supported and advocated in his youth. Has Lott done the same? What’s his voting record on civil rights issues or other issues important to the black community? That would say a lot more about the guy than his apology, or the remarks that prompted the apology in the first place. Ah, but if all he does is vote along lines that agree with the “black community”, isn’t that racist in and of itself? Honest people can disagree about the best way to deal with racial discrimation. To say that a person must take up the “Black cause” in order to repudiate an alleged racist past is, quite simply, wrong. There are many issues that the “Black community” is intersted in that arguable wrong-- as would be the case for any “community”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/63 "2005-11-17T00:15:55Z")
BTW, **Left Hand of Dorkness,** what specifically did Lott do in the distant past that he needs to apologize for, and how is it comparable to what Byrd did-- ie, having been an active member of the KKK? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/64 "2005-11-17T00:22:53Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Ah, but if all he does is vote along lines that agree with the “black community”, isn’t that racist in and of itself? Honest people can disagree about the best way to deal with racial discrimation. To say that a person must take up the “Black cause” in order to repudiate an alleged racist past is, quite simply, wrong. There are many issues that the “Black community” is intersted in that arguable wrong-- as would be the case for any “community”. True enough. He doesn’t have to be a rubber stamp. I’m just wondering if he’s undertaken any actions to back up his words. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/65 "2005-11-17T01:14:10Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > The problem with your statement was that you are looking for subtext when there wasn’t any on my part. I didn’t look for it, I just found it. I already explained why. If you don’t understand why Pirro brought it up, you should be ashamed for being so naive. > [@](#): > > Great. I’m glad he renounced them. If you weren’t aware he renounced them, the house part of the story is NOT the outrage. His presence in the Senate would be an outrage. > [@](#): > > Maybe he can then keep the word nigger out of his mouth too. As long as you’ve found something to stay upset about. I don’t even know what the fuck that statement means, but there’s nothing discernably racist about it. Not to absolve him of his decisions, but Byrd is an old man who grew up in West Virginia in the 1910s and '20s, and apparently was a member of the Klan in his twenties, and continued to be a racist thereafter. That’s not terribly shocking. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/66 "2005-11-17T01:26:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > True enough. He doesn’t have to be a rubber stamp. I’m just wondering if he’s undertaken any actions to back up his words. OK. I’m just wondering if he ever did something comparable to joining the klan that he needs to be apologetic about. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/67 "2005-11-17T01:28:20Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Clinton was co-chair for the party. Yeah, I already knew that, and I understand that’s why you bannered Mrs. Clinton’s name in the title. My main question, which apparently was not stated clearly enough the first time, was: are we expected to assume from this one rather dubious data point that Mrs. Clinton is really a racist in disguise, or maybe just doesn’t care about African Americans? Hey, I’m willing to be convinced, no problem, but it’ll take a lot more than what’s been shown in this thread so far to make a decent case. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/68 "2005-11-17T01:34:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > OK. I’m just wondering if he ever did something comparable to joining the klan that he needs to be apologetic about. Well, he’s a Republcian. That’s practically the same thing, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/69 "2005-11-17T01:37:15Z")
Out of interest, how did Hillary Clinton ever et to be a Senator from the state of New York, considering her Alabama residency? That always confused me a tad. Also, has she made Presidential ambition noises yet? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/70 "2005-11-17T01:44:59Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > Out of interest, how did Hillary Clinton ever et to be a Senator from the state of New York, considering her Alabama residency? That always confused me a tad. Also, has she made Presidential ambition noises yet? That’d be Arkansas, and she moved to New York before campaigning. Bill lives here. I think she’s still officially denying that she’s going to run - otherwise I’m sure Newsmax would’ve said “Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton” or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/71 "2005-11-17T01:46:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’d be Arkansas, and she moved to New York before campaigning. Bill lives here. I think she’s still officially denying that she’s going to run - otherwise I’m sure Newsmax would’ve said “Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton” or some such. Ahhh… my apologies. Akansas. I stand corrected. Thank you. So would she have some chance if she decided to run? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/72 "2005-11-17T01:55:47Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > So would she have some chance if she decided to run? Opinions about people’s opinions about her are very divided. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/73 "2005-11-17T02:07:12Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > Out of interest, how did Hillary Clinton ever et to be a Senator from the state of New York, considering her Alabama residency? Arkansas, not Alabama. New Yor requires only that you be a resident at the time of the elction. > [@](#): > > Also, has she made Presidential ambition noises yet? No. She has never publicly declared any desire to be president and always denied any intention to run when asked. > [@](#): > > So would she have some chance if she decided to run? It would be tough. She’s been so demonized by the right that I believe a large segment of the voting public would be unreachable for her. On the other hand, there seems to be a bit of a sea change in public sentiment towards Bush. Depending on Hillary’s opponent, a win might not be impossible for her, especially if the Pubs try to throw up someone strongly associated with W, like Jeb or Condi Rice. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/74 "2005-11-17T02:31:07Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > [The following is a transcript of Lott’s comments Friday and the press conference which followed: (snipping involved)](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/lott.transcript/) This is the first time I have seen these comments, and I am satisfied by them. Go, Lott, and sin no more. > [@John Mace](#): > > LHoD wants Lott to apologize for those beliefs held long ago. Although I’m not sure what those specific beliefs were, or if they were substantially different than the beliefs of most people during those times. “Most people”? Don’t you mean “most white American people”? It’s problematic, to put it mildly, to equate the two. At any rate, with Lott, I’m not talking about beliefs he held in 1950. I’m talking about his behavior in 1992 and beyond, as I’ve already described in numerous cites. I can link you again to his meetings with the CCC, in which case you seem likely to respond that these don’t contain specific evils that he did. I can link you to his votes on issues that strike me as anti-civil-rights, in which case you seem likely to respond that it’s racist to require a person to prove their lack of racism by voting along with the “black community.” What I can’t do is force you to connect the dots between his meetings with racists and his votes along lines that the racists would like. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/75 "2005-11-17T03:29:48Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …what specifically did Lott do in the distant past that he needs to apologize for, and how is it comparable to what Byrd did-- ie, having been an active member of the KKK? During the same era that Byrd was fighting the Voting Rights Act, Trent Lott was in the trenches [battling to keep his national fraternity segregated.](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399310,00.html) He has repudiated this action, and has undoubtedly grown in his views since then, as more recent events have demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/76 "2005-11-17T03:32:17Z")
If this is the best “smear” that the Pirro campaign can come up with against Hillary, she (Pirro) is gonna get her ass kicked next November. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/77 "2005-11-17T03:36:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t look for it, I just found it. I already explained why. If you don’t understand why Pirro brought it up, you should be ashamed for being so naive. Everywhere a conspiracy…does the sun shine through your tinfoil hat or do you just take vitamin C? Yeah, Pirro has motivation. But you’re attempted to ascribe hers to mine. > [@Marley23](#): > > If you weren’t aware he renounced them, the house part of the story is NOT the outrage. His presence in the Senate would be an outrage. > > As long as you’ve found something to stay upset about. I don’t even know what the fuck that statement means, but there’s nothing discernably racist about it. Nothing discernably racist about “nigger”? I think I can smell a conspiracy myself here. You do understand we’re fighting ignorance here, right? > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > are we expected to assume from this one rather dubious data point that Mrs. Clinton is really a racist in disguise, or maybe just doesn’t care about African Americans? The point was that Clinton co-chaired an event celebrating Byrd at a place that was wholly inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/78 "2005-11-17T05:12:08Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > The point was that Clinton co-chaired an event celebrating Byrd at a place that was wholly inappropriate. Well, that’s a point singularly lacking in nourishment and flavor, but if it makes you happy, I’ll say damn that Mrs. Clinton, and mean old Mr. Burns-- I mean Sen. Byrd, and this unnamed co-chair that I suppose we oughta be pissed off at too, but apparently is too unimportant to be mentioned in the news. And everyone who attended the party; damn them too, for good measure. And most of all, damn that evil [National Park Service](http://www.nps.gov/frdo/) for letting this cabal of closet racists use poor old Frederick Douglass’ house in this fashion. Of course,on my personal outrage-o-meter, this hardly lifts the needle, but hey, I’m just a middle-aged white guy, so what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/79 "2005-11-17T05:17:29Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Everywhere a conspiracy…does the sun shine through your tinfoil hat or do you just take vitamin C? Yeah, I’m a conspiracy nut. My record around here really backs up that suggestion. :rolleyes: Your ham-handedness is hardly a conspiracy. > [@](#): > > Yeah, Pirro has motivation. But you’re attempted to ascribe hers to mine. That’s your fault for repeating her campagn’s allegations, you douche. When you repeat something someone else is saying, it implies you support it. > [@](#): > > Nothing discernably racist about “nigger”? I think I can smell a conspiracy myself here. You may be smelling your own bullshit. But yes, there is nothing discernably racist about _the statement_. (I didn’t single out the word “nigger.”) You quoted it and found cause for outrage, so please: tell me what he means. I’ve read it many times and I haven’t got a clue. The more context the quote has, the less sense it seems to make. Here’s a slightly fuller version. He was playing word association with Tony Snow, and Snow gave him the phrase “race relations:” > [@Byrd](#): > > "They are much, much better than they have ever been in my lifetime. As a personal opinion, I think we talk about race too much. I think those problems are largely behind us. I think we can all profit by our mistakes. I think we have reached a new plateau. And, I think it is going to keep going upward.- the understanding and race relations. > "I think…I just think …we talk so much about it we create somewhat of an illusion …uh…uh…I think we should try to have good will. My old Mom told me, ‘Robert, you can’t go to heaven if you hate anybody.’ We practice that. > "There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time …it you want to use that word. We all…we all just need to work together to make our country a better country. > “I’d just as soon quit talking about it so much.” You could certainly call somebody a white nigger and be a racist for doing so. I’m not attempting to say that. But I don’t see that here. I mean, he’s specifically identifying “niggers,” whatever they are, as something separate from black people and not defined by race. So I don’t think it _could_ be racist. > [@](#): > > The point was that Clinton co-chaired an event celebrating Byrd at a place that was wholly inappropriate. Why aren’t you pitting the other co-chairs? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329/80 "2005-11-17T05:26:30Z")
I mean, if you _weren’t_ just mindlessly parroting Pirro’s allegations, why did you single out Clinton? There are many other people you could blame here. All she did was co-chair the thing. The most reprehensible person, from your standpoint, would be whoever chose that location for the party. But you don’t know who that is, and I’m thinking you didn’t try to find out. Even Pirro had the sense to say “and her Democrat colleagues.” You just stuck Hillary’s name in the thread title because her name was the one most prominently attached to the story. I’m more than willing to take you at your word that you weren’t just looking for a chance to smear Hillary Clinton. And I agreed, twice, that it was not a politically smart choice to hold the party where they had it. (That makes three.) It’s just that if you’re not out to attack Clinton, you obviously didn’t think about your posts before you made them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-gives-black-folk-the-byrd/331329.md?page=5)