# Hillary just lost the election. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663 "2016-09-11T16:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/221 "2016-09-12T05:18:00Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Yeah, because [gop.com](http://gop.com) is a neutral source. _When you whoosh upon a star…_ ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/222 "2016-09-12T05:27:23Z")
Don’t forget, the Harriet Jones government was brought down by the sentence “Don’t you think she looks tired?” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/223 "2016-09-12T05:27:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > From several days ago: > > **Hillary’s Health Concerns Serious, Say Most Doctors Polled by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons** The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a conspiracy group that believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS and that vaccines cause autism. [And that Obama used “neurolinguistic programming”](http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/0089) to hypnotize the public into voting for him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/224 "2016-09-12T05:47:04Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a conspiracy group that believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS and that vaccines cause autism. [And that Obama used “neurolinguistic programming”](http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/0089) to hypnotize the public into voting for him. Crud, they are worst that I thought. > **[Association of American Physicians and Surgeons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)** > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association that promotes conspiracy theories and medical misinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion–breast cancer hypothesis, and vaccine and autism connections, through its official publication, the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. The association was founded in 1943 to oppose a government attempt to nationalize health care. The group has included notable members, incl... > [@](#): > > Articles and commentaries published in the journal [of AAPS] have argued a number of non-mainstream or scientifically discredited claims,[3] including: > > [ul] > [li]that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern;[43][44][/li][li] that HIV does not cause AIDS;[45][/li][li] that the “gay male lifestyle” shortens life expectancy by 20 years.[46][/li][li] that there is a link between abortion and the risk of breast cancer.[9][/li][li] that there are possible links between autism and vaccinations.[9][/li][/ul] And now we know who is the group that is advising Trump and many yahoos in power. I agree with what others have said, I prefer a Clinton with health problems that a Trump (and a Republican party) with no common sence. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/225 "2016-09-12T05:59:27Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It looked bad because I think she didn’t really do what she should have done. If she’d have just gotten off her feet ASAP and maybe had a little water, I don’t think it would have gotten that bad. But instead they marched her out to the street and propped her up until the van arrived. And now instead of headlines about how she sat and drank some water for a minute or two (which would have been big in the fever swamps but not gotten any mainstream attention), there’s video of her limp body being pushed into a van. :smack: It appears she was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday and advised to rest and modify her schedule. Her campaign should have had a plan to keep her properly rested and hydrated at the event and to leave smoothly if necessary. Instead we have that terrible visual of her being dragged into the van. They they compounded the issue by not immediately disclosing that she was suffering from pneumonia. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/226 "2016-09-12T06:06:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a conspiracy group that believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS and that vaccines cause autism. [And that Obama used “neurolinguistic programming”](http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/0089) to hypnotize the public into voting for him. From your own cite: > [@](#): > > [This article is one of several hundred in the AAPS “News of the Day” archive. It summarized and linked to an article we had received that we thought would stimulate an interesting discussion–as it did. **An item taken from national or world news posted for information and discussion, as this one was, does not constitute an official position of AAPS**.] [bolding mine] I can’t help but wonder if your claim that a national association of physicians believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS is similarly flawed. But it doesn’t matter anyway with regard to what the poll found, unless of course you can demonstrate that the physicians polled said what they did untruthfully and out of political bias. A claim I should think you’d have a very hard time substantiating. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/227 "2016-09-12T06:09:28Z")
Yes, maybe the HIV-vaccine-hypnosis-just asking questions group is on the level _this_ time. We won’t ever know anything about the doctors who answered this tiny self-selected informal survey from a right-wing conspiracy outlet, so it might just be the gospel truth. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/228 "2016-09-12T06:10:38Z")
Image, evasiveness, and a lack of candor has been Hillary’s problem for a long time. It leads to suspicion and distrust. "What else is she hiding? What else are they holding back about her health? " She may be in reasonably good health for a nearly 70 year old lady. But she’s created so much distrust that the public doesn’t know what to believe. If she were running against anybody but Trump… She’d lose by a landslide. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/229 "2016-09-12T06:11:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > From your own cite: > > [bolding mine] > > I can’t help but wonder if your claim that a national association of physicians believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS is similarly flawed. > > But it doesn’t matter anyway with regard to what the poll found, unless of course you can demonstrate that the physicians polled said what they did untruthfully and out of political bias. A claim I should think you’d have a very hard time substantiating. Not hard if you had checked the cite I made already: > **[Association of American Physicians and Surgeons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons)** > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association that promotes conspiracy theories and medical misinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion–breast cancer hypothesis, and vaccine and autism connections, through its official publication, the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. The association was founded in 1943 to oppose a government attempt to nationalize health care. The group has included notable members, incl... > [@](#): > > The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association founded in 1943 to “fight socialized medicine and to fight the government takeover of medicine.”[3][4] The group was reported to have approximately 4,000 members in 2005, and 5,000 in 2014.[5][6][7] Notable members include Ron Paul and John Cooksey.[8] Ron Paul’s son, Rand Paul, was a member for over two decades until his election to the U.S. Senate.[9] The executive director is Jane Orient, an internist and a member of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine.[1] The AAPS motto, “omnia pro aegroto” is Latin for “all for the patient.”[10] AAPS also publishes the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (formerly known as the Medical Sentinel). > > The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there are links between autism and vaccinations. Yep, just part of the professional Astroturf groups out there that pull the legs of many conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/230 "2016-09-12T06:20:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Image, evasiveness, and a lack of candor has been Hillary’s problem for a long time. > > It leads to suspicion and distrust. "What else is she hiding? What else are they holding back about her health? " > > She may be in reasonably good health for a nearly 70 year old lady. But she’s created so much distrust that the public doesn’t know what to believe. > > If she were running against anybody but Trump… She’d lose by a landslide. Perhaps, but that is not the race we have, and once again, it is not just Trump who needs to be defeated, but most of the Republicans as well for using ignorance, bigotry and even racism to gain power. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/231 "2016-09-12T06:21:03Z")
Serious question: how much do/did non-conservative voters really hear about accusations/conspiracy theories about Clinton’s health before this, especially those that would be disqualifying for office? Sure, we know about all the right wing pundits blogs, and Trump has been pushing it to some extent, but it occurred to me that some sense of it is almost necessary for this incident to have maximum impact, and I realized I didn’t know how generally known it was. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/232 "2016-09-12T06:35:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I can’t help but wonder if your claim that a national association of physicians believes HIV doesn’t cause AIDS is similarly flawed. > > But it doesn’t matter anyway with regard to what the poll found, unless of course you can demonstrate that the physicians polled said what they did untruthfully and out of political bias. A claim I should think you’d have a very hard time substantiating. And what you cited were the results of an “informal survey” conducted online and presented to this bunch of known ultra-conservative conspiracy theory whackjobs. There is no medical credibility in anything the AAPS has to say, most especially about a political candidate. They are biased by their very charter. Just in case anyone doesn’t fully understand how absurd it is to cite an informal survey of the AAPS, the group was founded over 70 years ago to oppose any kind of government-assisted healthcare. They have since spent the better part of a century opposing every health care bill proposed, and their “journal” is loaded with totally discredited theories wrt aids, autism/vaccines, false medical ‘concerns’ about abortion, anti-gay propaganda, and much more in the same ultra-conservative vein. In 1944 Time reported that the group’s aim was the “defeat of any Government group medicine” and in 1966 the New York Times described it as an “Ultra-right-wing, political-economic, rather than medical group.” Additionally they tried to sue Hillary Clinton in 1993 over the Clinton healthcare plan and lost on appeal. Quite an unbiased source to present with an anonymous, informal, online poll about Hillary Clinton’s health. I winced when I saw the video in terms of how damaging it could be. But like most Clinton scandals, the full story is rarely as big of a deal as people try to make out of it. She just pretty recently served in what is probably the second most intense job in the US government, and pneumonia isn’t a chronic condition. She will take a few antibiotics and get some rest and be fine. If not, Clinton’s corpse would still very probably beat Trump. Kaine could probably beat him by a wider margin than Clinton so the idea of him having to take charge at some point during the administration wouldn’t be all that damaging anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/233 "2016-09-12T06:59:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > From several days ago: > > **Hillary’s Health Concerns Serious, Say Most Doctors Polled by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons** > > [Cite](http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hillarys-health-concerns-serious-say-most-doctors-polled-by-the-association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-aaps-300325065.html) > > Questions about Hillary’s health are more concerning, more widespread and more legitimate than many posters here can bring themselves to admit. > > As for me I’m almost starting to feel sorry for the old harpy. She’s chased the golden ring of the presidency most of her adult life and sacrificed a great deal in its pursuit, and now it truly looks like it’s starting to fall apart before her very eyes. If she weren’t such a smug, condescending, hateful, lying bitch I’d probably be feeling sorry for her already, but as it is I can’t quite make myself pull the trigger. So, in other words, members of a known right-wing fringe group with crazy medical beliefs conveniently hold a position that would invalidate the left-wing candidate. Have you really never run into the AAPS before? This is not some large group of physicians and surgeons. It’s a group of cranks and nutters. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/234 "2016-09-12T07:05:31Z")
No, I haven’t run into it before, but since subsequent research shows that the poll is indeed an anonymous, informal, online poll, as **Crazyhorse** already pointed out, I’m compelled to agree it lacks credibility and I hereby withdraw it as indicative of anything significant in regard to Hillary Clinton’s health. In short, my bad. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/235 "2016-09-12T07:19:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, I haven’t run into it before, but since subsequent research shows that the poll is indeed an anonymous, informal, online poll, as **Crazyhorse** already pointed out, I’m compelled to agree it lacks credibility and I hereby withdraw it as indicative of anything significant in regard to Hillary Clinton’s health. In short, my bad. I apologize. Yeah, be careful with stuff like that. There are a lot of groups like this. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/236 "2016-09-12T07:21:27Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So, in other words, members of a known right-wing fringe group with crazy medical beliefs conveniently hold a position that would invalidate the left-wing candidate. > > Have you really never run into the AAPS before? This is not some large group of physicians and surgeons. It’s a group of cranks and nutters. This item, though coming from those deplorables, has value as Hegel could tell you. A very nice cautionary tale for many right wingers. The scary part is that Rand Paul and many Republicans give their ears to groups like that. And we all can get an idea of where those weird anti vaccine ideas and many other anti science issues come up with doctors that are willing to support those very controversial if not insane ideas. Trump also shows that he is also following a couple or more of those deplorable ideas from the list of issues that the AAPS is infamously known. Just check the list I linked before. We really cannot allow Trump the chance to depend on groups like that one when deciding what to do with the CDC, the FDA and the EPA. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/237 "2016-09-12T08:04:31Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Serious question: how much do/did non-conservative voters really hear about accusations/conspiracy theories about Clinton’s health before this, especially those that would be disqualifying for office? Sure, we know about all the right wing pundits blogs, and Trump has been pushing it to some extent, but it occurred to me that some sense of it is almost necessary for this incident to have maximum impact, and I realized I didn’t know how generally known it was. My mom asked me about her health. She doesn’t follow any of the politics directly. She would never look at Trump’s twitter or a right wing blog. Everything she gets is from friends on Facebook and such. Yet she still heard about it. Granted, she is probably leans more conservative than not. But she did vote for Obama last election. and almost voted for him in 2008. And she is rather anti-Trump in this one. And I recently found out she’s pro-choice, albeit still anti-abortion. And she’s okay with gay marriage, even if she’s not convinced that homosexuality is not a sin. (But she’s open to the idea, and is mostly saying that it’s between them and God.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/238 "2016-09-12T08:20:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Don’t forget, the Harriet Jones government was brought down by the sentence “Don’t you think she looks tired?” Only because a candidate with limited mind control was able to capitalize on it. And probably would have won anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/239 "2016-09-12T08:23:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Only because a candidate with limited mind control was able to capitalize on it. And probably would have won anyways. Well, we can definitely rule out Trump being a Time Lord, since Time Lords have two hearts and there’s no evidence that he even has one. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/240 "2016-09-12T08:57:42Z")
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