# Hillary just lost the election. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663 "2016-09-11T16:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/902 "2016-09-25T14:52:29Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/pence-gennifer-flowers-will-not-be-at-debate-228631](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/pence-gennifer-flowers-will-not-be-at-debate-228631) > > Seems like Pence is saying (hoping) that it’s just more of Donald’s theatrical twitter bullshit. > > My guess is Donald wanted it, and Conway and Bannon probably said “Noooooo, no, no, Donald.” I wonder if this is where Conway grounds him and takes away Twitter privileges for a week. But hopefully, Mark Cuban will be front and center as Hillary’s guest. Mark had promised this, and trump apparently didn’t like the idea at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/903 "2016-09-25T16:30:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Right now, according to RCP averages, Trump is approaching a threshold he’s only crossed maybe two or three times and only truly exceeded once in the days after the R convention. But Clinton is hovering above her nadir. There’s little room for error, and everyone’s paying attention now. The way I see this is Trump’s high is lower than Clinton’s low. This is great news for the Clinton campaign. > [@asahi](#): > > If Trump is perceived as scoring a decisive victory, Clinton will be in very serious trouble. And it will be hard for her to recapture control of the election narrative unless Trump seriously errs. There will be no decisive victory for either candidate. That is not how these things work despite your insistence that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/904 "2016-09-25T16:45:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > But hopefully, Mark Cuban will be front and center as Hillary’s guest. Mark had promised this, and trump apparently didn’t like the idea at all. And were he in control of his faculties, he would be wise to completely ignore Cuban’s presence. But I’ve got my money on him making some sort of whiny allusion about it at some point during the debate (if Cuban is actually there). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/905 "2016-09-25T16:48:30Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The way I see this is Trump’s high is lower than Clinton’s low. This is great news for the Clinton campaign. Most of the time, yes, but not 100 percent of the time, and Trump is now within striking distance. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There will be no decisive victory for either candidate. That is not how these things work despite your insistence that it is. You’re entitled to think what you want, but you’re wrong. As I’ve pointed out, Romney defeated Obama in the first debate and Obama’s poll numbers went down by as much as 6 points in a CNN poll that followed in the week after the poll. Did Obama regain his footing? Yes, he did, but he entered the debate in a fundamentally stronger position than Hillary Clinton is entering this one. Of course the only way I can really prove it to you and others is if Hillary Clinton, in fact, is perceived as losing the debate tomorrow, which I absolutely, positively do not want to happen. So if SDMB posters remain skeptical and unconvinced, I’ll see that as a positive sign. There are some debates I’d rather not win. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/906 "2016-09-25T16:52:16Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > But hopefully, Mark Cuban will be front and center as Hillary’s guest. Mark had promised this, and trump apparently didn’t like the idea at all. If Donald starts spouting off in one of his torrents of bullshit in which basically talks past moderators and cutting Hillary off, I could totally see Mark Cuban heckling Don from the seats. Heckling from the seats is one of Mark’s many talents. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/907 "2016-09-25T17:43:58Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Heckling from the seats is one of Mark’s many talents. Well… [like they say…](https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/71949681.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/908 "2016-09-25T17:49:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > If Donald starts spouting off in one of his torrents of bullshit in which basically talks past moderators and cutting Hillary off, I could totally see Mark Cuban heckling Don from the seats. Heckling from the seats is one of Mark’s many talents. At which point Hillary should say “Sit down and shut up, Mr Cuban, I got this.” ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/909 "2016-09-25T18:07:39Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m less worried about a relapse of physical problems. A more realistic danger is that she comes across, as she did in some of her debates with Bernie Sanders, as lacking energy and enthusiasm. I think people want to see a passionate Hillary Clinton - they want to see if there’s anything other than just political ambition there. She’s not going to win this thing by being Miss Factoid. Not saying she should lie either – don’t follow the Donald into the gutter. But play it more like Marco Rubio did, pestering the hell out of him with questions and needling him when he doesn’t respond. If she can do it by being relentless without losing her cool, then I think she could win big. It doesn’t require being inauthentic but it does require a little more oomph than what I’ve seen in some of her past performances. I can see her litigation experience as being quite useful in the debates. She’s had experience in crafting a narrative to present to people for them to review and judge. Trump may have experience in a more casual way, but he’s got a team of lawyers that do the “dirty work.” If the debate gets personal, advantage Trump. But Hillary wipes the floor with him if it stays about the issues. Plus, there may be a slight dip for Trump if he appears to be beating on a woman. His approach there could backfire. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/910 "2016-09-25T18:45:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And it will be hard for her to recapture control of the election narrative unless Trump seriously errs. Trump has made serious errors almost daily, and it hasn’t seemed to hurt him. His followers are immune to facts and logic. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/911 "2016-09-25T18:52:21Z")
Don’t forget that there will be 2 days of “What Trump meant by xxx is this…” His supporters will eat it up, those with \< 10 brain cells will eat it up, and everyone else will keep wringing their hands praying for signs from heaven, or maybe a meteor shower. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/912 "2016-09-25T19:01:28Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > So go back to Freerepublic. Or Stormfront. Please try to avoid even sidewise calling another poster a fascist and suchlike. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/913 "2016-09-25T19:15:06Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Trump has made serious errors almost daily, and it hasn’t seemed to hurt him. His followers are immune to facts and logic. Trump has indeed made serious errors, and some of those errors have hurt him badly, even if they haven’t hurt him permanently. Trump’s worst tendency is to find himself into a controversy in which someone has managed to get under his skin, at which point he (sorry to use this hackneyed phrase) throws water on the grease fire. He was able to survive throwing water on the grease fire in June and again in August – because his opponent Hillary Clinton gave him an opening, but more importantly because he had _time_ to recover. He doesn’t have that anymore. Voters’ first impressions of Trump didn’t matter, and neither did their second, fourth, or 100 hundredth impression of him. But their final impression does matter – a lot. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/914 "2016-09-25T19:17:23Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Don’t forget that there will be 2 days of “What Trump meant by xxx is this…” His supporters will eat it up, those with \< 10 brain cells will eat it up, and everyone else will keep wringing their hands praying for signs from heaven, or maybe a meteor shower. If Clinton can manage to walk out of this with people talking about how she did a reasonably good job of not taking Donald Trump’s bait and not getting flustered by his attacks, then I think she will have, in some sense, ‘won’ the debate. Maybe then she pushes her lead up a few points, and if that happens, I think it’s getting to the point where maybe the cake is finally baked. I hope so. I still think she needs to somehow show some heart and soul, but I’m not sure how she does that when she’s standing alongside an orange gorilla that can talk. I’ll settle for her just standing calm with a smirk and smile in the face of Donald’s bombast. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/915 "2016-09-26T07:00:21Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There will be no decisive victory for either candidate. That is not how these things work despite your insistence that it is. Unfortunately, no decisive victory by either will be spun by the media as a win for Trump. Count on it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/916 "2016-09-26T10:56:29Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Unfortunately, no decisive victory by either will be spun by the media as a win for Trump. Count on it. I beg to differ - that’s why Steve Bannon and Kelly Ann Conway were brought in. They’re going to spin the hell out of it in social media and in the right wing press. It’ll get tweets, shares, likes. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/917 "2016-09-26T11:55:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clinton has never looked bad in debates, but she’s never looked particularly good either. And she’s never had to answer to her various scandals in a debate setting, since Democrats tend to shy away from that subject. Trump won’t, and her off the cuff explanations of her issues have tended to make her look bad in the past… So, Trump is planning on dumping the issues supposedly up for discussion tonight in favor of the “scandals”? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/918 "2016-09-26T12:11:33Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > So, Trump is planning on dumping the issues supposedly up for discussion tonight in favor of the “scandals”? He’ll try to. By the way, anyone else pretty sure that Clinton will quote Reagan, especially with a “There you go again.” when she points out his being loose with the facts at some point? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/919 "2016-09-26T12:52:48Z")
That would be silly. Come up with new stuff. No one really knows what Trump plans to do, but if he does decide to attack her on her ethics I don’t really see how she’ll be able to parry that unless her staff has finally been allowed to talk to her about this stuff(Game Change strongly suggested that it’s a taboo subject). She ignores it-it sticks She gives unprepared answers-looks as dumb as she usually does when she says things like 'What, with a cloth?" She says, “Well, you’re ethically challenged too!”- Doesn’t help, since she’s supposed to be superior to Trump. If the public sees Trump as “just as bad” as Clinton, and vice versa, Trump will win. But if she has well prepared responses that don’t sound defensive, that can neutralize the attacks and make it seem like Trump is flailing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/920 "2016-09-26T14:54:24Z")
Trump voters that can be swayed by facts, yes. Might even sway both of them! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/921 "2016-09-26T15:07:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Trump voters that can be swayed by facts, yes. Might even sway both of them! Unfortunately, recent Bloomberg polls show there are a lot more of them than you might think. The polls are a virtual tie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663.md?page=47)