# Hillary just lost the election. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 11, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663 "2016-09-11T16:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/161 "2016-09-12T00:47:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If this is a setback, it can be reversed at the debates – Trump not showing up is far weaker than Hillary having a stumble and pneumonia (presuming that she recovers). If at the first debate, she makes him look like a buffoon (and a weak buffoon at that), that would be far more significant than this. What has been Hillary Clinton’s greatest weakness? What has been the one thing that has allowed Donald Trump to hang around like a bad case of MRSA? Perceptions that she is hiding a bunch of rotten corpses in her closet. Sure, the media blow things out of proportion and they are scandal hungry, but it’s not just the media. They tried to find scandals on Obama, but they just weren’t there. The Clintons, however, give the media plenty of ammo. And when you have a history of concealing and stonewalling the public, it makes some of the wildest conspiracy theories seem actually believable. We can now expect conspiracy theories about her health to remain throughout the election. We can also expect the public to take the other conspiracy theories a lot more seriously. I know that’s not what the progressive diehards want to believe, and believe you me, I don’t like writing it, but as I said: you will see. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/162 "2016-09-12T00:52:12Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > For starters, consider the source being the campaign of a serial liar. Well, not much on that front really, compared to the industrial quantities of bull Trump spews almost every day: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/09/08/esquire-has-had-it-with-trumps-iraq-war-lies/?utm\_term=.0a00a53612db](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/09/08/esquire-has-had-it-with-trumps-iraq-war-lies/?utm_term=.0a00a53612db) > [@](#): > > There is a possibility, though remote, that the next time Donald Trump talks about how he’d been against the Iraq War from the beginning, he won’t cite Esquire magazine as corroboration for his revisionist history. In an NBC News forum last night with moderator Matt Lauer, for example, Trump said this: “I happened to hear Hillary Clinton say that I was not against the war in Iraq. I was totally against the war in Iraq. From a — you can look at Esquire magazine from ’04. You can look at before that.” > > As we noted earlier, the entire U.S. media — with the possible exception of Lauer himself — had evaluated and vacated that particular claim by Trump. > > Such is the campaign of deception over his Iraq War position that Esquire has tired of seeing its brand name associated with it. Today the magazine appended an editor’s note to the August 2004 Trump story in which he made some remarks about the ill-fated war. Here’s the text: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Editor’s note: The following story was published in the August 2004 issue of Esquire. During the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump has repeatedly claimed to have been against the Iraq War from the beginning, and he has cited this story as proof. The Iraq War began in March 2003, more than a year before this story ran, thus nullifying Trump’s timeline. More details can be found here. > > > > ``` > > In a speech in Cleveland today, Trump tried to substantiate his case that he opposed the Iraq war. He cited an interview with Neil Cavuto in which he declared the “Iraqi situation” a “problem” and didn’t oppose the impending war. By Trump’s recollection, though, the interview had a different arc: “I said in an interview with Neil Cavuto that perhaps we shouldn’t be doing it yet. And that the economy, these are quotes, the economy is a much bigger problem as far as the president is concerned.” > > Several days after the invasion, Trump did say that war is a “mess,” though, again, that was after the invasion. In an interview with radio host Howard Stern in 2002, Trump voiced support for invading Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/163 "2016-09-12T00:52:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > but as I said: you will see. Should that be pronounced in a Yoda voice? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/164 "2016-09-12T00:55:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I know that’s not what the progressive diehards want to believe, and believe you me, I don’t like writing it, but as I said: you will see. piffle, I think you have not hanged around very long in this site, I do remember that many progressives and liberals here already know what the republicans will attempt to do with any Democratic president. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/165 "2016-09-12T00:58:03Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Bullshit. It’s a complete non issue, she’s released far more medical information than Trump’s laughable “healthiest candidate ever”. So when is Trump going to release his Tax Returns? or a proper doctors health assessment that’t not a complete joke. Oh, and what about all the events that Trump cancelled in the last month? I hear he’s not well enough to keep the campaign pace up, never mind leaving early, he couldn’t even turn up in the first place ! As Scott Adams just said > [@](#): > > If humans were rational creatures, the time and place of Clinton’s “overheating” wouldn’t matter at all. But when it comes to American psychology, there is no more powerful symbol of terrorism and fear than 9-11 . When a would-be Commander-in-Chief withers – literally – in front of our most emotional reminder of an attack on the homeland, we feel unsafe. And safety is our first priority. > Hillary Clinton just became unelectable. > The mainstream media might not interpret today’s events as a big deal. After all, it was only a little episode of overheating. And they will continue covering the play-by-play action until election day. But unless Trump actually does shoot someone on 5th Avenue, he’s running unopposed. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/166 "2016-09-12T01:04:21Z")
I’d try and change subject too if I were a Hillary defender. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/167 "2016-09-12T01:09:48Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > As Scott Adams just said Scott Adams is an authority on occasionally funny cartoons, his opinion on anything else is utterly meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/168 "2016-09-12T01:10:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > What has been Hillary Clinton’s greatest weakness? What has been the one thing that has allowed Donald Trump to hang around like a bad case of MRSA? Perceptions that she is hiding a bunch of rotten corpses in her closet. Sure, the media blow things out of proportion and they are scandal hungry, but it’s not just the media. They tried to find scandals on Obama, but they just weren’t there. The Clintons, however, give the media plenty of ammo. And when you have a history of concealing and stonewalling the public, it makes some of the wildest conspiracy theories seem actually believable. We can now expect conspiracy theories about her health to remain throughout the election. We can also expect the public to take the other conspiracy theories a lot more seriously. > > I know that’s not what the progressive diehards want to believe, and believe you me, I don’t like writing it, but as I said: you will see. This only becomes a problem for her if she is not telling the truth about the pneumonia. As of now, I don’t see any reason to suspect she is hiding something. Woe unto her, though, if she is. I suspect there’s going to be a whole lot of sleuthing going on over the next few weeks trying to uncover something. But once we have the first debate under our belts, everyone will have something else to kvetch about. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/169 "2016-09-12T01:12:28Z")
It’s fun watching all you Trumpistas trying to make yourselves feel better about the fact that your orangutan is going to go down in one of the biggest electoral defeats in US history. Rave on, delusionals! Sane people will get the last laugh in November. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/170 "2016-09-12T01:16:59Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > For starters, consider the source being the campaign of a serial liar. As opposed to that bastion of Truth, birther-in-chief Donald Trump? Yes, I consider her campaign far more trustworthy than his, even as much as they have lied and dissembled. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/171 "2016-09-12T01:19:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes, leaving the ceremony because she was ill certainly was disrespectful for the dead, wasn’t it? :rolleyes: But why should we give a shit what the dead think? > > BTW, did Mr. Trump attend this ceremony too? :dubious: Trump was there, a few tens of feet from Clinton as I read. But I don’t think leaving a service or ceremony if you feel ill enough to basically collapse on your way out would be seen as disrespectful by anyone reasonable. That’s not the issue here. OTOH the idea ‘who GAS what the dead of 911 think?’ would not be a good one for someone running a national political campaign, as opposed to random snarky internet posters. 🙂 But I might assume you’re not really serious on that one and just saying the ‘disrespect’ angle is phony in this case which I agree with. This is like a lot of things. There’s no way it’s going to change the opinion of people who are absolutely opposed to Trump. Such people are going to rationalize Clinton’s collapse (it really wasn’t a ‘stumble’) and belatedly revealed pneumonia diagnosis as nothing. And it’s a matter of opinion and impression, so they aren’t ‘wrong’ per se. But there’s enough undecided (either to vote or who to vote for) to still swing the election. And if you’re undecided, a show of physical weakness is not good, that’s political reality. And it will continue to be a problem if either she has to become significantly less visible resting or ends up coughing a lot in the debates. I don’t see how anyone’s crystal ball is clear enough to be sure that won’t be the case and won’t have a serious negative impact on her chances (same for the opposite, no way to say ‘she lost the election today’). Nate Silver produces interesting stuff, reasonable to argue the best of such stuff. But those models ‘probabilities’ are just outputs of volatility/correlation matrices based on historical outcomes relative to poll results in different states, and historical trends and factors (how is the economy, etc) with a basically normal distribution type assumption. They tell you zero about the actual probability Clinton’s health problem seriously affecting this election. And having pneumonia at 68 is a fairly serious health issue, not in terms of likely death, but in terms of carrying on a grueling campaign and appearing completely well and strong as swing voters are going to tend to expect/demand. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/172 "2016-09-12T01:21:30Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > They tell you zero about the actual probability Clinton’s health problem seriously affecting this election. And having pneumonia at 68 is a fairly serious health issue, not in terms of likely death, but in terms of carrying on a grueling campaign and appearing completely well and strong as swing voters are going to tend to expect/demand it. IMO, that’s not the real damage that was done today. The real damage done here is that **she basically confirmed a conspiracy theory**. Does anybody not actually fucking see the danger here? This is on the heels of basically having been called out by the FBI director and having to basically say “Well yeah I lied about that too - but so what?” I mean, Hillary is not just unlikable anymore, she’s got zero credibility. And the conspiracy theorists, the Alex Jones’ of the world actually became somewhat credible…which is a terrifying thought. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/173 "2016-09-12T01:26:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This only becomes a problem for her if she is not telling the truth about the pneumonia. As of now, I don’t see any reason to suspect she is hiding something. Woe unto her, though, if she is. I suspect there’s going to be a whole lot of sleuthing going on over the next few weeks trying to uncover something. But once we have the first debate under our belts, everyone will have something else to kvetch about. No, I’m sorry. Damage done, man. Damage done. She basically proved that **the conspiracy theorists were right**. Do I think that it’s a fatal mistake? No, it’s not. Trump could still do something off-the-charts stupid, like insult a child with Down’s syndrome. He could have a disastrous debate performance (preferably two or three). But this is serious damage she’s inflicted upon herself. Make no mistake about it. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/174 "2016-09-12T01:28:22Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > And having pneumonia at 68 is a fairly serious health issue, not in terms of likely death, but in terms of carrying on a grueling campaign and appearing completely well and strong as swing voters are going to tend to expect/demand. exactly, and her doctor cleared her to go out on the campaign trail, and they’ve known and tried to hide it, and they went to Chelsea’s apartment (with a small child there) instead of the hospital. This all smells like more Clinton crime family BS. Now she has to take several days off the campaign trail in order to stick with this cover story. They will probably ask that she be allowed to sit for the debates too. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/175 "2016-09-12T01:28:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s fun watching all you Trumpistas trying to make yourselves feel better about the fact that your orangutan is going to go down in one of the biggest electoral defeats in US history. Rave on, delusionals! Sane people will get the last laugh in November. I think you’re wrong about what’s happening here. I’m not seeing anyone here who wants Trump to win. The fact is, many of us are quite upset that this situation will _probably_ take center stage in all Trumps campaign ads between now and November. Stephen Bannon is going to make sure of that. If someone tell a big enough lie, enough times, even sane people will start believing it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/176 "2016-09-12T01:35:20Z")
And it’s going to matter about as much as “BENGHAZI” does. Let Trump put it center stage any time he wants. He’s still going to lose and lose badly. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/177 "2016-09-12T01:36:07Z")
Hillary’s “incident” has revived a pop classic: [https://youtu.be/ZJHotCZK-cg](https://youtu.be/ZJHotCZK-cg) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/178 "2016-09-12T01:36:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Completely unrelated note: do you watch classic movies? On occasion, I do catch a flick on TCM or AMC. Many of the old black and white films have a lot of depth that modern films often do not. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/179 "2016-09-12T01:39:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > More amateur punditry. > > At least you’re making something close to a testable prediction, so we can either nod sagely or point and laugh in two weeks. But let’s put a finer point on it. What constitutes a “huge issue” in terms of the 538 forecast to you? Hehe. Punditry. Nice one. Who am I punditing for again? But i do see a bunch of people who already can’t grasp the fact that some people will actually vote for Trump, that a significant number of people not decided and that the election is far from over who can’t see how bad this looks. Being seen as weak can be fatal. Trump was trying to make her health a campaign issue. Now it’s front and center. Beyond the polling issues lets just talk about the physical reality. I’m sure she has pneumonia as she is saying. When I last had pneumonia it knocked me on my ass for a week and I was in good shape and a hell of a lot younger. At this point of the campaign she can’t afford to take a week off. She can’t afford to appear weak. And she needs to take it easy and make sure she takes care of herself. Even though it is treatable she’s getting to the age where there can be serious complications if she doesn’t slow down and rest. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663/180 "2016-09-12T01:41:22Z")
All right, you might take this with a grain of salt or an entire shaker, but [Report of DNC emergency meeting to consider replacing Hillary Clinton.](http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/09/11/breaking-dnc-calling-emergency-meeting-to-consider-replacing-hillary-clinton-details/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-just-lost-the-election/765663.md?page=10)