# Hillary makes bogus claim of racism in Alabama. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983 "2015-10-18T05:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/301 "2015-10-19T20:03:44Z")
Back in the day, it was just about entirely a racial issue, white people in Alabama simply didn’t want black people to vote. Now, its at least partly a political issue, black people tend to vote Democrat. Be that as it may, manipulating the laws to provide an unearned political benefit to one party is simply wrong. If tomorrow morning, by some miracle, Republicans in Alabama woke up unanimously convinced that black people in Alabama would vote 80% Republican, you would see a voter registration and outreach drive beyond ACORN’s wildest dreams! They would turn out the League of Women Voters, the churches, the volunteer groups to knock on every black household door. Ingenious ways would be found to verify identity, photo id’s would drop from the skies. Republicans would discover facts and studies that, to their astonishment, show that voter id fraud is minuscule and would cheerfully brush aside any such concerns in their born-again fervor for civil rights! And I could proceed with my plans for my coronation as Queen of Romania. Tremble and obey, my possums… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/302 "2015-10-19T20:06:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And I could proceed with my plans for my coronation as Queen of Romania. Tremble and obey, my possums… Too late, I already hold that title. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/303 "2015-10-19T20:21:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If tomorrow morning, by some miracle, Republicans in Alabama woke up unanimously convinced that black people in Alabama would vote 80% Republican, you would see a voter registration and outreach drive beyond ACORN’s wildest dreams! They would turn out the League of Women Voters, the churches, the volunteer groups to knock on every black household door. Ingenious ways would be found to verify identity, photo id’s would drop from the skies. Republicans would discover facts and studies that, to their astonishment, show that voter id fraud is minuscule and would cheerfully brush aside any such concerns in their born-again fervor for civil rights! Does anyone doubt that this is exactly correct? I was speculating earlier that Republican candidates would go around offering limo rides to help black people get to the polling places, but that was very naive. They would do **so** much more than that if blacks started voting Republican – and they would do it all in the name of righting the wrongs of the past, reminding everyone that the poor and the disadvantaged needed the most help to keep from being disenfranchised! Of course they’re doing some of those things already – like offering free voting ID cards that are so incredibly easy to get that hardly anyone has ever tried to get one. They even have “mobile units” going to remote locations to help distribute these cards. Of course, they park in some Godforsaken secret location and are open for just one hour (no kidding!) probably at 3 AM (OK, kidding about that one) but by God, they can say they have them! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/304 "2015-10-19T21:38:40Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > I note that for people on minimum wage this is close to half a days salary. Half a day’s salary is a lot to me, ymmv. And one notes it doesn’t include one day off to deal with this shit, travel expenses, possibles hotel bill, the various costs tacked on the nominal fee etc… ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/305 "2015-10-19T22:07:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Why were the offices closed? [For budget reasons](http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/von%20Spakovsky%2C%20letter%20linked%20to%2C%202015-10-8.pdf), not for any reason that had anything to do with race. LOL! So you believe them? It just so happens that they had to shutter many offices in majority black areas? Of course, you want to believe them, you’re dying to, so anything less than someone outright admitting that they closed it for racial reasons isn’t going to be good enough for you. Its Alabama. Its obvious. Election year(s), typical voter ID nonsense, southern state with iffy racial history. I’m going to put myself out on a limb here and say it was 99% for racial reasons. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/306 "2015-10-19T22:12:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And one notes it doesn’t include one day off to deal with this shit, travel expenses, possibles hotel bill, the various costs tacked on the nominal fee etc… Just to be clear, a State Voter ID can still be obtained at county offices within each county. Some folks may have to go the next county over to get a Drivers License, but you don’t need a DL to vote. And we’re talking about going to the next county over (maybe an hour’s drive), not the next country over. I doubt anyone has to stay overnight just to go the next county. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/307 "2015-10-19T22:16:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Voting is a civil right. Identifying yourself as an eligible voter is a civic responsibility. All rights come with responsibilities. It’s a responsibility that should be as easy as possible to meet. There’s simply no reason for a setup as onerous as Alabama’s. Again, voting is a civil right, not a test of character (or financial resources). > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That, or loosen up ID requirements to make it easier. I.E. aren’t receipts, utility bill etc. > > Voter fraud is an issue, but there’s little evidence that in-person voter fraud happens often. Sure, that works too. Either make an ID card that’s free **and** easy to get, allow other forms of ID that are easy to get, or continue doing it the way states have done for decades pre-voter ID movement. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/308 "2015-10-19T22:16:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And one notes it doesn’t include one day off to deal with this shit, travel expenses, possibles hotel bill, the various costs tacked on the nominal fee etc… Did you read **even sven’s** post? In CA, the process is done via mail. No days off, travel expenses, or hotel bills. Even in states where you might have to go in person, incurring a hotel bill is quite a bit of a stretch of the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/309 "2015-10-19T22:17:24Z")
Hey quick poll question. Raise your hand (figuratively speaking) please if you are _not_ interested in taking measures to prevent government actions which have a disproportionate negative impact on the ease with which African Americans are able to vote. Not a gotcha, I probably won’t even post further on the topic! I just want to get clear on this point. It is not at all unbelievable to me that someone might have a perfectly calm-headed reason for thinking it’s not important to prevent disproportionate negative impacts on specific, measurable demographics, racial or otherwise. Any of that going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/310 "2015-10-19T22:18:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Did you read **even sven’s** post? In CA, the process is done via mail. No days off, travel expenses, or hotel bills. Even in states where you might have to go in person, incurring a hotel bill is quite a bit of a stretch of the imagination. How is that a stretch if you actually have to go in person? If I live out of state, and have to go to the state to do this business, then it would not be unusual at all if I were to have to pay for a place to stay for at least one night. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/311 "2015-10-20T00:02:04Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Hey quick poll question. > > Raise your hand (figuratively speaking) please if you are _not_ interested in taking measures to prevent government actions which have a disproportionate negative impact on the ease with which African Americans are able to vote. > > Not a gotcha, I probably won’t even post further on the topic! I just want to get clear on this point. It is not at all unbelievable to me that someone might have a perfectly calm-headed reason for thinking it’s not important to prevent disproportionate negative impacts on specific, measurable demographics, racial or otherwise. Any of that going on here? I’m going to change “African Americans” to “group”. African Americans aren’t the only **group** in the US that might be affected adversely by certain laws or practices. I have a problem if the measures are DESIGNED to be such. However, almost any change we make is going to affect different groups differently, and so I can’t get behind the idea that no change can be made if it just happens to affect one group more than another. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/312 "2015-10-20T00:06:06Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Hey quick poll question. > > Raise your hand (figuratively speaking) please if you are _not_ interested in taking measures to prevent government actions which have a disproportionate negative impact on the ease with which African Americans are able to vote. > > Not a gotcha, I probably won’t even post further on the topic! I just want to get clear on this point. It is not at all unbelievable to me that someone might have a perfectly calm-headed reason for thinking it’s not important to prevent disproportionate negative impacts on specific, measurable demographics, racial or otherwise. Any of that going on here? Is it important? You mean, like does it raise the political misdemeanor to a felony? Dunno. Shouldn’t happen, regardless. And what does it say to those citizens? If tomorrow, the legislature were to pass a law that freckled people have to pay a nickel more to ride the bus, I would be pissed. Not for a nickel, got a nickel, that ain’t the point. And if I further knew, or had very good reason to suspect, that this had been done in order to secure an advantage at the polls, well… Yosemite Sam, hopping mad, firing off pistols in every direction… Christ Jesus, haven’t these people endured enough insults for a life time? Maybe dunno, not black, but I do have a navel, so I’m guessing yeah. And what if there’s a super-dooper close election, maybe a couple votes didn’t get cast because it was too much hassle to get the id. Why, that would be as terrible a travesty as voter fraud tipping an election, rip the fabric of space-time into shreds, it would…(Hi, **Bricker**!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/313 "2015-10-20T00:09:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …if it just happens to affect one group more than another. Fascinated by your use of the semi-passive voice, here. Have to ask, do you believe that? That it “just happened”, an “oopsy-daisy”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/314 "2015-10-20T00:13:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fascinated by your use of the semi-passive voice, here. Have to ask, do you believe that? That it “just happened”, an “oopsy-daisy”? We are talking about any and all potential changes, not just this one. I’ve already expressed my opinion about this particular case earlier in this thread. I actually was going to post, as you did, about a political motivation trumping a racial one, but you beat me to it. But just to be clear, I think there needs to be an independent analysis of this particular case-- there’s smoke, but I’m not sure there’s fire. I’m willing to defer to an independent group that can actually take the time and measure the impact impartially. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/315 "2015-10-20T00:16:12Z")
Well, then, in that case, no, we should not hold back needed legislation simply because it affects some demographic in a minor way. Good catch, there, **John**. That point might have been overlooked, not been for you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/316 "2015-10-20T00:17:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, then, in that case, no, we should not hold back needed legislation simply because it affects some demographic in a minor way. Good catch, there, **John**. That point might have been overlooked, not been for you. Any time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/317 "2015-10-20T01:13:13Z")
I **said** ‘be nice’. What part of that was unclear? Warnings for: > [@](#): > > **elucidator** > Well, isn’t that something! I, on the other hand, don’t find your evasion of my question at all unusual! Son of a gun! > [@](#): > > TonySinclair > Boy, did I misunderestimate you. I thought you were so oblivious to lives other than your own that you couldn’t imagine anyone having a childhood like the one I described. Now I find that you can’t even imagine people walking to work. > [@](#): > > Robert163 > But to come on a message board and to belittle poor people… what kind of serious psychological damage does it take to do that… ??? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/318 "2015-10-20T02:17:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, by the way, cite for above consent decree… > > [http://www.justice.gov/crt/united-states-district-court-northern-district-alabama-southern-division](http://www.justice.gov/crt/united-states-district-court-northern-district-alabama-southern-division) > > It written, of course, in High Legalese, which I understand perfectly, but am not very good at explaining. Not as good as **Richard Parker** , who, happily, is close to hand. I am content to leave the matter to him. No need to thank me, least I could do… What **Richard Parker** said was, “At least as recently as 2008 Alabama was found to have been trying to suppress black voters and entered a consent decree with the federal government to revert the attempted changes.” I’m not terribly good with legalese either, but I can see two ways that the consent decree doesn’t match what he said. First, the defendant was just a city in Alabama, Calera. It wasn’t the state of Alabama. Second, the decree doesn’t say anything about Calera “trying to suppress black voters”. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/319 "2015-10-20T02:33:50Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > 1/335 is less than .003. That’s exceedingly rare by any definition. Would you fly on an airliner of you knew that 3 out of every 1000 flights would crash? That’s not all that rare. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/320 "2015-10-20T04:18:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just to be clear, a State Voter ID can still be obtained at county offices within each county. Some folks may have to go the next county over to get a Drivers License, but you don’t need a DL to vote. But you need a DL to get the voter ID, so that point is moot. > [@](#): > > And we’re talking about going to the next county over (maybe an hour’s drive), not the next country over. I doubt anyone has to stay overnight just to go the next county. And going to the next county over is fine if you have a car. If you don’t, it becomes an adventure. If you do, you still have to pay for gas, etc… which, again, is a financial hurdle for the poor. In any event, my point was that saying the paperwork’s 25 bucks (or whatever) is far from the whole story. And of course : legally speaking, how is one supposed to drive to the place where they deliver driving licenses ? 😃 Quite a bit of hassle just to get basic paperwork IMO. And I agree with whoever said that in the end it amounts to a poll tax. It’s certainly a disincentive for the rural poor of Alabama to go and vote (or to have a DL for that matter, which means they’ll get dinged whenever stopped on a DWB…). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=17)