# Hillary makes bogus claim of racism in Alabama. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983 "2015-10-18T05:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/61 "2015-10-18T16:52:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Fact: Alabama passed a strict voter ID law in 2011 that took effect for the first time last year. And in last year’s general election, [voter turnout was the lowest in 28 years.](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/11/alabama_voter_turnout_only_41.html) Gee, I wonder what demographic predominantly failed to turn out? Fact: That’s better than the national average, which saw the lowest turn-out in [70 years.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/11/10/voter-turnout-in-2014-was-the-lowest-since-wwii/) > [@](#): > > Fact: In that same election, unless I missed one, [every single elected official was a Republican](http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/11/alabama_2014_election_results.html). Fact: Only one of those election was even close. Most were won by 2x. Hard to imagine that voter suppression was 50%. Or even 25%. Do you think it was? > [@](#): > > Fact: And now, in a perfect followon to requiring photo ID to vote, they have closed license offices in 31 counties that issue just such IDs, and the counties in which these offices are being closed are not “mostly” dominated by black populations, they _ **all** _ are: [Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one.](http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/alabama_sends_message_we_are_t.html) Just to be clear, are you talking about the entire DMV office, or just the satellite office, which is what is being complained about. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/62 "2015-10-18T17:02:14Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > How much are you willing to bet on that? A hundred dollars? A thousand? > > Where do you intend to get statistics from in order to determine whether you won or lost the bet? I’ll bet you a hundred dollars if you can come up with a source we can both agree on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/63 "2015-10-18T17:22:37Z")
It appears there is an effort afoot to prove that these changes do not make it any harder for the least Republican demographic to register and vote. Are we, then, to assume that everything _as it is_ is just fine? Because the Republican Party is all about ensuring that every citizen have every opportunity to vote? And we can dismiss any claims about Republican skulduggery because of their pristine and spotless record? When have the Republicans opposed efforts to expand the voting rolls amongst the black and poor? Outside of every single fucking time, that is… Even if this is a small problem, why is it a problem at all? Is the issue whether or not a problem exists, or the wretched dishonesty of Hillary in exaggerating it? Well, hell, not that fond of Hillary to begin with, so if the small problem is fixed and you can score points on her at the same time, shit, knock yourselves out! But fix it. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/64 "2015-10-18T17:31:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Fact: And now, in a perfect followon to requiring photo ID to vote, they have closed license offices in 31 counties that issue just such IDs, and the counties in which these offices are being closed are not “mostly” dominated by black populations, they _ **all** _ are: [URL=“[Alabama sends message: We are too broke to care about right and wrong - al.com](http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/alabama_sends_message_we_are_t.html)”] Did you even bother reading the webpage that you linked to? It doesn’t support your statement. Instead, it proves you wrong. You begin by noting that Alabama closed satellite DMV offices in 31 counties, which is correct. Then you say, “the counties in which these offices are being closed are not “mostly” dominated by black populations, they _ **all** _ are”. Which is false. Then you link to a webpage which says that 8 of the satellite offices that are closing are in counties with a black majority. Only 8. Isn’t 8 less than 31? And assuming that the page you linked to is accurate, doesn’t that prove you wrong? You said all the offices being closed are in counties dominated by black populations. You put the word “all” in bold and italics. Then you linked to a page which shows that most of the offices being closed aren’t majority black. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/65 "2015-10-18T17:38:31Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Once again, liberals insult African-Americans by suggesting that it’s too far beyond their scope to go to a government office and provide a birth certificate to get a photo ID. > > It’s the same shit the rest of us have to do… > > As an aside: is this Hillary playing demographic warfare to get minority votes? Say it ain’t so, Shirley… I’m not African-American, but getting a birth certificate is a pain in the butt. I was born in California, and getting a certificate requires a hefty fee, another set of hefty shipping fees, and a pile of notarized forms that need to be sent by registered mail to California. It’s been on my “to-do” list for years. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/66 "2015-10-18T17:58:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Conservatives always seem to have such difficulty with the idea of historical change. DEMOCRATS FOUNDED THE KKK! REPUBLICANS DESTROYED SLAVERY! And everything that happened between 1860 and the late 20th Century is irrelevant, apparently. And liberals always assume racism. Grow up. Slee ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/67 "2015-10-18T18:01:04Z")
Already have. Waiting on you. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/68 "2015-10-18T18:09:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think that’s obvious – I think recent statements by various Republican party officials have made it pretty clear that many Republicans believe making it harder to vote will help them politically and advocate for such actions. Any possibility that we could know exactly what statements you’re referring to? > [@](#): > > In my experience from being raised in the region (Louisiana, for me), many of the people making up the government in the Deep South have very similar beliefs and goals as they did in past decades. Indeed. I was raised in Kentucky and never saw any evidence of any politician trying to restore Jim Crow laws. So you have your anonymous internet claim and I have mine. But in accordance with Straight Dope principles, I’m trying to focus on verifiable fact. **elucidator** and others implied that closing the satellite offices will affect blacks and the poor more than others. I asked for verifiable evidence of this, and no one has posted any. Instead we see numerous claims that of course Alabama is trying to prevent blacks from voting, or of course the Republicans are doing so. But no evidence. Indeed Alabama prevented blacks from voting in the Jim Crow era, when Democrats were in charge, but never in the past 45 years. Hence the anti-Alabama bigotry we’ve seen does nothing to prove that there’s racism afoot in Alabama today. In the Jim Crow era, many southern districts had exactly zero registered black voters. Today, all races in the South register and vote in similar percentages, nor is there any difference between the South and the rest of the country in this regard. That’s a verifiable fact. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/69 "2015-10-18T18:18:21Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Did you even bother reading the webpage that you linked to? It doesn’t support your statement. Instead, it proves you wrong. **Wolfpup** misspoke, I believe, or misunderstood the stats. There appear to be two different claims: 1. All of the offices closed were in African-American-majority counties. This appears to be false. 2. The offices in all African-American-majority counties [edit: correction, all counties in which African Americans make up 75% or more of the population] were closed. This is what **wolfpup’s** cite argues. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/70 "2015-10-18T18:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > …Today, all races in the South register and vote in similar percentages, nor is there any difference between the South and the rest of the country in this regard. That’s a verifiable fact. So, there is no racism in Alabama? Or it can’t be proven, therefore we must assume that there is not? You sure that’s where you want to go with this? And what, perzackly, do you mean “similar” percentages? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/71 "2015-10-18T18:23:05Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Indeed Alabama prevented blacks from voting in the Jim Crow era, when Democrats were in charge, but never in the past 45 years. This is laughably false. At least as recently as 2008 Alabama was found to have been trying to suppress black voters and entered a consent decree with the federal government to revert the attempted changes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/72 "2015-10-18T18:31:02Z")
Oh, OK, 45 months, 45 years, whats the big deal, anyway! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/73 "2015-10-18T18:40:26Z")
Oh, by the way, cite for above consent decree… > **[In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Alabama,...](https://www.justice.gov/crt/united-states-district-court-northern-district-alabama-southern-division)** It written, of course, in High Legalese, which I understand perfectly, but am not very good at explaining. Not as good as **Richard Parker** , who, happily, is close to hand. I am content to leave the matter to him. No need to thank me, least I could do… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/74 "2015-10-18T19:19:06Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > And liberals always assume racism. Hey, when the odds are as historically good as they are… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/75 "2015-10-18T19:40:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They could do it “Minnesota style”. A prospective registration requires some proof of address, say, a utility bill, and a registered voter who will attest under penalty of perjury that you are well known to that registered voter, that you are who you say you are. Bada-boom, bada-bing, you are a registered voter! > > The voter registration van is equipped with computerized photo equipment and a device for printing and embossing photo id’s that attest to voter registration, with a copy e-mailed to a central registry. If you lose your card, a photo id still resides on the computer network. If they can afford a cheap laptop and a modem, no prob, Bob. So, yeah, that mobile van idea could work, unless its just a mobile center for you to go find out why you can’t be registered. > > Finding a way to get unregistered voters onto the voting rolls isn’t a problem. Coming up with a rationalization for why it can’t happen requires some ingenuity. Has anyone else pointed out that you cannot get a Voter ID unless you are _already_ registered to vote? Did y’all miss that detail? Getting the Voter ID and registering to vote are two separate things, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/76 "2015-10-18T19:49:23Z")
[Rachel Maddow did a piece on this a couple of weeks ago](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/disturbing-racial-pattern-in-alabama-closings-537741891606). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/77 "2015-10-18T19:49:53Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Did you even bother reading the webpage that you linked to? It doesn’t support your statement. Instead, it proves you wrong. No, it doesn’t. Did you even bother reading beyond the snippet that you quoted? > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > You begin by noting that Alabama closed satellite DMV offices in 31 counties, which is correct. > > Then you say, “the counties in which these offices are being closed are not “mostly” dominated by black populations, they _ **all** _ are”. Which is false. No, it isn’t. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Then you link to a webpage which says that 8 of the satellite offices that are closing are in counties with a black majority. Only 8. Isn’t 8 less than 31? You misread it. The first part says that of the _ **ten** _ (10) counties in the entire state **with the highest percentage** black population, 8 of them (80%) are closing their satellite DMVs. The second part, further down in the article and the one that you either didn’t get down to reading or forgot to mention, states that “_Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one_.” Which is what I quoted. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > And assuming that the page you linked to is accurate, doesn’t that prove you wrong? You said all the offices being closed are in counties dominated by black populations. You put the word “all” in bold and italics. Then you linked to a page which shows that most of the offices being closed aren’t majority black. Wrong. According to the article, every single county affected is majority black by more than 75%. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/78 "2015-10-18T20:04:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wrong. According to the article, every single county affected is majority black by more than 75%. No. According to the opinion piece (it’s not an “article” in the sense of the news story, it’s an opinion piece), every singe county which is 75% or more black was affected. That’s a different claim: > [@](#): > > Every single county in which blacks make up more than 75 percent of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. Every one. But that article is spinning, presenting the statistics in the most unfavorable light, and it’s not possible to tease out how many of the districts affected are majority white. And it links to another article to back up that claim, but I can’t find the information in the linked article. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/79 "2015-10-18T20:15:09Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Back in 1965 Mrs. Clinton supported Goldwater if you want to bring up the politics of three generations ago. Quibble: in 1964, when Goldwater was running for President (I don’t know in what sense one might have supported Goldwater a year later after he was so thoroughly defeated), she was about 18. I was about 16 and I supported him too. I don’t think that makes either one of us a chameleon. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/80 "2015-10-18T20:17:12Z")
Unless your position is that all counties have closed these offices everywhere, then the proportion of 30+ % white majority counties with closed offices cannot but be lower than that of 75+% black counties. Which is 100%. ETA : that was addressed at\*\* John Mace \*\*obviously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=5)