# Hillary makes bogus claim of racism in Alabama. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983 "2015-10-18T05:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/121 "2015-10-19T01:18:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Were you born in a hospital, like 97% of all U.S. births? Then the issuance of a birth certificate was practically automatic. Why don’t you have yours? I’ve moved a dozen times in fifteen years of adulthood, including overseas and cross country moves. Stuff gets lost. I assumed my mother had a copy at her house, but it turns out that the version she kept is the commemorative certificate issued by the hospital. I have no idea what happened to the original. It’s probably in some random box that got left with a random ex-boyfriend or something in some hasty move a decade ago. People lose stuff. Robberies and fires happen. Parents don’t always do a great job handing stuff over. Some people are just disorganized. And if you do have to replace your birth certificate and don’t live close to your city of birth, getting a new on can be a pain. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/122 "2015-10-19T01:23:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’ve moved a dozen times in fifteen years of adulthood, including overseas and cross country moves. Stuff gets lost. I assumed my mother had a copy at her house, but it turns out that the version she kept is the commemorative certificate issued by the hospital. I have no idea what happened to the original. It’s probably in some random box that got left with a random ex-boyfriend or something in some hasty move a decade ago. > > People lose stuff. Robberies and fires happen. Parents don’t always do a great job handing stuff over. Some people are just disorganized. And if you do have to replace your birth certificate and don’t live close to your city of birth, getting a new on can be a pain. At the risk of drawing the ire of the Moderator, none of what you posted is the problem of the State. Why should there be an exception for “people who move” “because of ex-boyfriends”, and are generally “disorganized”? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/123 "2015-10-19T01:31:53Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > At the risk of drawing the ire of the Moderator, none of what you posted is the problem of the State. Why should there be an exception for “people who move” “because of ex-boyfriends”, and are generally “disorganized”? What are you even talking about, beyond trying to take a pot shot? I said getting a new birth certificate is a pain in the butt. You asked why I don’t have a birth certificate and I told you- it got lost in a move at some point. There is no larger point to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/124 "2015-10-19T01:34:58Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Thanks for that. Note the commentary under the map: > The preliminary analysis suggests that the license office closures are largely concentrated in and around the “black belt,” the portion of the state where the proportion of the population that is African American is highest. > > Here are some facts about the closure of the license offices … > Those facts corroborate what I said in #87, such as the black belt being predominantly affected, 11 counties there being majority black, and 8 of those having their DMVs closed. Plus a lot more detail. Looking at the map, it’s easy to see that the large majority of the closings are taking place in counties that are not majority black. They are presumably, in most cases, majority white. The site says, “the license office closures are largely concentrated in and around the ‘black belt’,” a statement that’s designed to be so vague that it can’t be disproved. Exactly how did they determine whether an office is “in or around the black belt”? The Brennan Center’s analysis is a classic example of how to take something that doesn’t have anything to do with race and spin it in a race-baiting way. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/125 "2015-10-19T01:36:09Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/126 "2015-10-19T01:37:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > At the risk of drawing the ire of the Moderator, none of what you posted is the problem of the State. Why should there be an exception for “people who move” “because of ex-boyfriends”, and are generally “disorganized”? Yeah, Yeah!! And why should it be convenient to vote, Hmm? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/127 "2015-10-19T01:39:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I said getting a new birth certificate is a pain in the butt. You asked why I don’t have a birth certificate and I told you- it got lost in a move at some point. There is no larger point to it than that. In my state, the cost is the princely sum of $10.00, and one can request it online. How is that a pain in the butt? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/128 "2015-10-19T01:46:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Bite me. > > It’s the same thing that other posters have complained about in ATMB. Different standards for different posters, depending on their politics. :smack: Direct insults have always received Warnings. You are out of line. Stop it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/129 "2015-10-19T01:48:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In my state, the cost is the princely sum of $10.00, and one can request it online. How is that a pain in the butt? Maybe you left out the important part of your question. The words “for me, D’anconia”. “If a certain requirement isn’t a pain in the butt (insert your new phrase here), I don’t see why someone else could have an issue with it.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/130 "2015-10-19T01:50:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Maybe you left out the important part of your question. The words “for me, D’anconia”. > > “If a certain requirement isn’t a pain in the butt (insert your new phrase here), I don’t see why someone else could have an issue with it.” How is $10 and an online form a “pain in the butt”? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/131 "2015-10-19T02:09:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is $10 and an online form a “pain in the butt”? Let me guess- you aren’t Californian. How do I know that? Because in California they cost $25.00, can only be processed by mail, and require a notarized statement. Pain in the butt. My daughter’s birth certificate could be processed online, but it cost me $60 once they tacked on a “processing fee” and an inflated registered mail fee. The “VitalCheck” online service that many states use tacks on lots of surprises on the end of an order. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/132 "2015-10-19T02:10:29Z")
Hell, I’m stumped. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/133 "2015-10-19T02:13:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In my state, the cost is the princely sum of $10.00, and one can request it online. How is that a pain in the butt? Do you live in Alabama? Do you know what it takes in Alabama? In Ohio, it takes a personal visit to the courthouse. For my neighbor without a car, that would be a two hour round trip (not counting the time at the courthouse) on “public” transportation that only runs at limited hours and must be set up a week in advance. (Not my issue; I have mine. However, your attempt to dismiss the problem simply demonstrates ignorance of the other 49 states’ policies. In Louisiana, for example, it would require a six hour wait at the office on top of whatever transportation issues arose.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/134 "2015-10-19T02:16:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > In my state, the cost is the princely sum of $10.00, and one can request it online. How is that a pain in the butt? Let’s start with this, and then move on to more substantive issues. How nice for you. Life isn’t always as easy for everyone. This assumes first of all that you have a record of birth at all and know exactly what it is, which many blacks do not, as a legacy of the Jim Crow era where they may have been born at home and not in a hospital or their records otherwise not clear. And there are many other requirements in many jurisdictions which may be onerous for many, including affidavits and certifications and such complexities in the application process as are a real part of life for such individuals as the one you’re trying to convince it’s not a problem, even though it is for them. Birth certificates are the fundamental basis of identity, potentially instruments of identity theft, and, no, I doubt that even in your state they’re given out indiscriminately to anyone with ten bucks to spend. OK, enough of that. There was a question about the number of driver’s license holders among blacks in Alabama. I don’t have those numbers but it seems evident that it’s a significantly lower number than among whites. Among youth across the US, for instance … 54% of respondents were licensed before age 18. Blacks (37% …) and Hispanics (29% …) were less likely than non-Hispanic whites (67%) to be licensed before age 18. Lower household income was independently associated with delayed licensure (P \< .001). The most common self-reported reasons for not becoming licensed sooner were not having a car, being able to get around without driving, and costs associated with driving. > **[2197-1714-1-4.pdf](https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/2197-1714-1-4.pdf)** > > 310.38 KB And this, which corroborates both things I just said: … there are somewhere between 250,000 and 500,000 people around Alabama who don’t have photo identification, according to the state’s own numbers. African Americans are more likely to not have licenses or state-issued ID—in no small part because a lot of folks in the elderly black population don’t have birth certificates. (Many black women in the South weren’t served by hospitals during the Jim Crow era, so they gave birth at home or at non-medical facilities, their children born off the books.) [http://www.citylab.com/politics/2015/10/workers-not-voters-are-most-at-risk-due-to-alabamas-dmv-closings/409957/](http://www.citylab.com/politics/2015/10/workers-not-voters-are-most-at-risk-due-to-alabamas-dmv-closings/409957/) And now this gem: > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … voters can also get a free voter ID card at any Registrars office. There is such an office in every county. Once again, how nice! The insidious thing about “anyone can get it, and it’s FREE!!” is that not anyone get it, and “free” isn’t free if it’s an enormous hassle and/or involves being subjected to intimidating onerous processes. At some point the person just goes, “why bother?”. Which sort of sums up the whole objective of voter ID. **Septimus** said “As for the free voter ID, one complaint is that the registration process is made intimidating. Petitioner must swear, risking Class C Felony Perjury, that he/she has no other ID, according to the NAACP.” And the following appears to be quantitatively factual: These problems undoubtedly contribute to the fact that only 5,070 voter ID cards were issued by the Secretary of State and county registrars ahead of the November 2014 elections—utterly failing to bridge the gap for the hundreds of thousands of voters who lack driver’s licenses or non-driver ID cards and falling far short of the Secretary of State’s own modest goal of issuing 12,000 cards. The source is the same as the prior link. Note that this equates to a grand total average of about 75 of these marvelous free voter ID cards being issued in each county. 75!! I read somewhere that one county issued a grand total of five. Not exactly flying off the shelves. Sounds like another convenient misdirection by the vote suppressors. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/135 "2015-10-19T02:21:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > …people that refuse to participate in normal society? crux of the matter for many issues blamed on “racism” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/136 "2015-10-19T02:21:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Let me guess- you aren’t Californian. How do I know that? Because in California they cost $25.00, can only be processed by mail, and require a notarized statement. Pain in the butt. Oh, no. $25.00. > [@](#): > > My daughter’s birth certificate could be processed online, but it cost me $60 once they tacked on a “processing fee” and an inflated registered mail fee. Couldn’t the hospital provide you with a birth certificate at the time? ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/137 "2015-10-19T02:22:38Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Looking at the map, it’s easy to see that the large majority of the closings are taking place in counties that are not majority black. They are presumably, in most cases, majority white. The site says, “the license office closures are largely concentrated in and around the ‘black belt’,” a statement that’s designed to be so vague that it can’t be disproved. Exactly how did they determine whether an office is “in or around the black belt”? > > The Brennan Center’s analysis is a classic example of how to take something that doesn’t have anything to do with race and spin it in a race-baiting way. …so this is just more manufactured outrage from the left? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/138 "2015-10-19T02:29:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Oh, no. $25.00. Yup. Or about 1/4 of my monthly non-food spending money. Or about three hours of work at minimum wage, for a piece of paper. > [@](#): > > Couldn’t the hospital provide you with a birth certificate at the time? They are not issued from the hospital. You turn in a form at the hospital and they are supposed to arrive a month or so later. Except hers didn’t arrive, and I needed one for travel and couldn’t wait longer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/139 "2015-10-19T02:34:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Oh, no. $25.00. If you’re poor, $25 may as well be $250. Or $2,500. If you can’t vote without a birth certificate, and you have to pay money for a birth certificate, isn’t that a de facto poll tax? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Couldn’t the hospital provide you with a birth certificate at the time? You really think a newborn baby would be responsible for keeping track of a birth certificate? [Up to 25% of African Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jul/11/eric-holder/eric-holder-says-recent-studies-show-25-percent-af/). > [@](#): > > In a December 2011 report, the NAACP mentioned the 25-percent figure from the 2006 survey, going on to say that factors in individuals not having IDs may include the cost of getting a photo ID (because minorities are over-represented in the poor population) or a lack of the documents needed to apply for the photo ID, **such as birth certificates (not issued to many African Americans born before the Civil Rights Act passed)**, which also can cost money to obtain. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983/140 "2015-10-19T02:36:36Z")
Innocence, bordering on ignorance, only answer. The Republican Party of Alabama is entirely unaware of race, it never even occurred to them! The poor dears just stumbled into this trying to while doing their very best to prevent another outbreak of sparkleherpes! > [@](#): > > …accommodate people that refuse to participate in normal society? … How did you arrive at “refuse to participate” from “can’t find birth certificate”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-makes-bogus-claim-of-racism-in-alabama/734983.md?page=8)