# Hillary-Obama: a fanciful scenario but the only one that would worry me at this point **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407 "2011-10-12T09:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/21 "2011-10-12T15:25:37Z")
This is one of the stupidest ideas I’ve seen in awhile. You want the Democrats to say: Well, we really fucked up with that Obama guy, but we’re going to fix it by putting Hillary in charge, and Obama will be her co-pilot. Hillary would then have to say how she was going to do thing differently from Obama, when in point of fact she would be doing the exact same things. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/22 "2011-10-12T15:34:03Z")
If you really were an Obama supporter, but don’t feel like he is personally up for the job, why would Hillary-Obama “worry” you? Wouldn’t you be happy to have a president that will support the agenda you voted for in 2008, but more effectively than Obama has? ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/23 "2011-10-12T16:10:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is one of the stupidest ideas I’ve seen in awhile. You want the Democrats to say: Well, we really fucked up with that Obama guy, but we’re going to fix it by putting Hillary in charge, and Obama will be her co-pilot. Hillary would then have to say how she was going to do thing differently from Obama, when in point of fact she would be doing the exact same things. ALso i might add. watch every African-American democratic voter completely sit out the next election… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/24 "2011-10-12T16:22:37Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I know it’s a fanciful notion. But . . . maaaybe it would be a way to spin things to cater to Obama’s narcissism, if even he sees the writing on the wall going into the summer, where he’s still (undoubtedly) assured of his own greatness but can blame the circumstances of this particular election season. Sort of a “you’ve been a prophet before your time” appeal. And as opposed to kicking him off the ticket altogether, he might still preserve some sort of pseudo-incumbency as Veep. No, it’s an idea that only seems plausible to people who still can’t believe that Obama on in 2008. They don’t understand why people voted for him a first time so they don’t understand why anyone would vote for him a second time. > [@Koxinga](#): > > I dunno. Romney’s got good hair and seems to be able to hold his own in a debate. I doubt that swing voters would be appalled. But I disagree about the referendum thing – it should be fairly easy for the Republicans to follow Reagan’s “Are you better off than you were four years ago,” and Clinton 92’s simple query of “So, how you doin’?” No, the last thing any Republican wants to do is talk about four years ago. That’s going to be one of Obama’s talking points: “Hey, I may not be great but at least I’m not as bad as the administration I replaced.” The Republicans are going to want to pretend 2000 to 2008 never existed. They’re going to avoid mentioning George W. Bush the same way they used to avoid mentioning Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/25 "2011-10-12T16:24:44Z")
The Republicans actually could win in 2012. But they’d need a candidate that they haven’t put forward. They need a positive candidate. Somebody who’s giving people a reason to vote for him or her rather than just saying people should vote against Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/26 "2011-10-12T18:22:08Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Or will that just put too much a crimp in your concern trolling? Accusations of trolling (including concern trolling) are not welcome in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/27 "2011-10-12T19:10:50Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Obama’s narcissism narcissism = Extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one’s own talents and a craving for admiration. Given the fact 53% of his fellow Americans told him they wanted him to be the big boss of the U.S. of A. I’m not certain it’s possible for him to be narcissistic. If anything, lefties criticize him for being too willing to negotiate with GOP which kind of implies he lacks sufficient self-image to impose his will. Bill Clinton? GWB? now those guys were narcissists, and they got their wills imposed. As for the OP: Ridiculous for credibility reasons stated upthread. The GOP has nobody in the chute with anything approaching credibility, and it’s only a matter of months before the front-runners start slashing each other’s throats. The 2012 election is Obama’s to walk away from, because that’s the only way he can lose. But I think he could lock it up solid with Hillary as his veep and having her staged/informed for 2016. Unless the GOP has a wunderkind they’re already grooming she’d be unstoppable. Everyone knew she was the brains of Bill’s presidency, and she’s not growing weaker internationally as Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/28 "2011-10-12T19:51:16Z")
I can only imagine what other countries would think of us if we demoted our president to VP. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/29 "2011-10-12T19:53:28Z")
Hey, it worked for Putin. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/30 "2011-10-12T20:03:42Z")
Yeah, but he was already supercool because his name was Vlad. You can get demoted to VP of Baltimore and still be cool if you’re a Vlad. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/31 "2011-10-12T20:25:25Z")
1. It’s not going to happen. No sitting president would ever decide to take the V.P. position. There would be _no_ benefit. Frankly, I think Obama would rather be outed (falsely) as gay than become the vice presidential candidate. No one could promise him the 2016 election or even the nomination, and he wouldn’t believe anyone who tried. 2. Hillary could not win in 2012. Allowing her the nomination would be admitting that the Democratic president whom we elected was a failure and seriously call into question his ideas and policies. Under those circumstances, she would have a hard time retaining the votes of Democrats, never mind attracting new and independent voters. 3. Hillary and Obama are not idiots. Both of them have been in the game long enough to understand Point #2, and utterly reject, along with the rest of the party, a scenario that could only result in a Republican being elected. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/32 "2011-10-12T23:39:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I don’t think the GOP will press the Fast and Furious situation very far. Since it is law enforcement, it is too similar in subject matter to an active foreign policy, which the GOP does not want to remind voters of, since it has been far more successful under Obama than before. Agreed. Every administration is going to have An Operation Gone Wrong. This doesn’t exactly rise to the level of Iran-Contra. > [@Koxinga](#): > > Ah, now that looks like the central question to me. Hillary still has favorable marks and independent appeal. This is what I truly am not seeing. Hilary left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth (please, no Lewinsky jokes) from Bill’s presidency, which is one of the reasons that a lot of Democrats (myself included) did not want her to get the nomination. If she had, we’d be talking about how President McCain is really starting to look worn out… > [@](#): > > Yeah, I was thinking it’d be a huge gamble and a bit of a move of desperation – but between Solyndra, Fast & Furious and a possible double dip recession evolving over the next six months, could the Democrats get to that point of desperation? No. > [@Koxinga](#): > > I know it’s a fanciful notion. But . . . maaaybe it would be a way to spin things to cater to Obama’s narcissism, if even he sees the writing on the wall going into the summer, where he’s still (undoubtedly) assured of his own greatness but can blame the circumstances of this particular election season. Sort of a “you’ve been a prophet before your time” appeal. And as opposed to kicking him off the ticket altogether, he might still preserve some sort of pseudo-incumbency as Veep. I think Your Reading Between The Lines Spectacles need a new prescription. > [@](#): > > I dunno. Romney’s got good hair and seems to be able to hold his own in a debate. I doubt that swing voters would be appalled. But I disagree about the referendum thing --\*\* it should be fairly easy for the Republicans to follow Reagan’s “Are you better off than you were four years ago,”\*\* and Clinton 92’s simple query of “So, how you doin’?” And from Obama comes the simple answer: “No, and I already said things weren’t better, and guess who’s fault that is? Not mine.” And Obama would be right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/33 "2011-10-13T00:55:18Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > And from Obama comes the simple answer: “No, and I already said things weren’t better, and guess who’s fault that is? Not mine.” And Obama would be right. Obama has been making the argument that the problem with the economy is the Republicans in Congress not the Democrat in the White House. Obviously this argument won’t convince everyone. But it’s political blindness to assume it won’t convince some people. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/34 "2011-10-13T06:46:24Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I think Romney could totally defuse this whole “Are Mormons really Christians?” thing by announcing his conversion to Secular Humanism. Then, he could run foursquare on his record–“Romenycare for everyone! What worked in Massachusetts will work for America!”–and beat Obama by outflanking him to the left. Dream on. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/35 "2011-10-13T06:56:39Z")
I like Obama, but I agree with the OP that he is not up to his job. His big mistake was to force through an unpopular health care plan when he should have been working on the employment situation. Now he loses fights with Congressional Republicans on issues where public opinion is on his side. Hillary Clinton may be the most popular public figure. My ideal scenario would be for Obama to decide not to run, and for Clinton to run in his stead. I will never vote for one of the Republican presidential candidates. If one of them wins, unemployment and the national debt will almost certainly rise. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/36 "2011-10-13T07:08:41Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Agreed. Every administration is going to have An Operation Gone Wrong. This doesn’t exactly rise to the level of Iran-Contra. Nobody was killed as a direct result of Iran-Contra, as far as I can recall, especially not US law enforcement agents (not to mention literally hundreds of innocent Mexicans). I can see the Republican campaign putting together ads featuring interviews with families of those agents, footage of Holder perjuring himself, and an implication that Holder’s justice department didn’t take these gun deaths so seriously because they were (mostly) only Mexicans, after all. > [@](#): > > This is what I truly am not seeing. Hilary left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth (please, no Lewinsky jokes) from Bill’s presidency, which is one of the reasons that a lot of Democrats (myself included) did not want her to get the nomination. If she had, we’d be talking about how President McCain is really starting to look worn out… Bloomberg (Sept. 16): [Hillary Clinton Rise as Most Popular Politician Prompting Buyers’ Remorse](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-16/clinton-popularity-prompts-some-remorse-poll.html) > [@](#): > > And from Obama comes the simple answer: “No, and I already said things weren’t better, and guess who’s fault that is? Not mine.” And Obama would be right. Yea, there is a malaise afflicting the country, and our nation has gotten soft, the fault lies not in our stars, dear Obama, but in ourselves; please take another four years to show us the way and we promise to eat our peas and turn in our homework on time . . . that’s one winner of a message, all righty. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/37 "2011-10-13T07:20:43Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > If you really were an Obama supporter, but don’t feel like he is personally up for the job, why would Hillary-Obama “worry” you? Wouldn’t you be happy to have a president that will support the agenda you voted for in 2008, but more effectively than Obama has? This is a fair point. The thing is, though, I was a bit taken in by what (at the time) looked like Obama’s charisma and youthful drive (esp. as opposed to McCain), disgust with GWB, and frankly the excitement of living in a time where we truly make history by electing our first black president. To the extent I was thinking about an agenda, I kind of figured as a Democrat Obama’s first order of business would be addressing unemployment, maybe in some way revisiting the Works Progress Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps, and strengthening regulations on the financial industry. Another FDR, basically. But Obama spent all of his capital by going off on a constitutionally questionable and politically wasteful health care wild goose chase, and instead of cracking down on the banks he got in bed with them. Am I confident that Hilary would do a better job? At this point, no: if she keeps the same Obama crew in place, we’ll just get more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/38 "2011-10-13T07:43:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There is zero chance this could happen. It’s like the theories about Bush replacing Cheney or Obama replacing Biden. Even if there were something in it for the political parties and agendas - which is extremely doubtful on its own - there is nothing in it for the individuals, and that’s who makes the decisions. It’s not even like those theories. Obama replacing Biden will almost certainly not happen. It wouldn’t really help him, and probably make him look even weaker than he looks now. But it could happen. Presidents have done things like that before, and it’s not absurd in concept to think that it might happen. Biden could get sick between now and the convention, he could do something horribly scandalous, Obama could decide there’s a state or faction in the party he desperately needs to win, etc. None of that will probably happen, but it’s within the realm of possibility. This plan, though, I don’t see any chance it would happen. It’s absurd on its face, and really impossible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/39 "2011-10-13T13:59:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Biden could get sick between now and the convention, he could do something horribly scandalous, Obama could decide there’s a state or faction in the party he desperately needs to win, etc. None of that will probably happen, but it’s within the realm of possibility. Are you putting air-quotes around “sick” for that scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407/40 "2011-10-13T15:47:57Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Nobody was killed as a direct result of Iran-Contra The plan was set up to fund the Contras - they’re right there in the name. And the Contras were trying to overthrow the Nicaraguan government. Do you really think they restricted themselves to holding parades and passing out leaflets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-obama-a-fanciful-scenario-but-the-only-one-that-would-worry-me-at-this-point/599407.md?page=3)