# Hillary tells it like it is about Bernie and his bros **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751 "2020-01-21T16:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/161 "2020-01-22T17:42:10Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > But Clinton still won the nomination. All that proves is that the overlap between Clinton voters and Clinton supporters with the time/enthusiasm on their hands to stand around an event center is less than the overlap of Sanders voters and Sanders supporters with time/enthusiasm. But the overall group of Sanders supporters still proved to be considerably smaller than Clinton’s no matter how many event halls he filled. In a primary situation, it’s not a bad idea to consider which candidate’s supporters have demonstrated that they have the time and enthusiasm to actively campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/162 "2020-01-22T17:43:27Z")
I’m not a Democrat and I’ve made it clear while I’ll vote for almost anyone to get Trump out of office–I will never vote for Sanders, and will in fact vote for Trump specifically to try to keep Sanders out of the White House. With that caveat and because I believe a lot of moderate conservatives like myself, many of which helped you guys take the House in 2018 will never vote for a terrible candidate like Bernie Sanders, I really think Bernie needs to face the **same scrutiny as any other Democrat.** Any other Democrat that has polled above 10% has had to face the scrutiny of being negatively attacked by others in this primary (and even some who never cleared that polling threshold.) For the same reason that British Labour had been afraid to vociferously challenge Corbyn (fear of upsetting his mindless thralls), I think many Democrats are afraid to challenge Sanders the same way he challenges them (with dishonest claims, misrepresentations, baseless claims of corruption etc), and I also think we all know there’s a 5 foot thick opposition research folder on Sanders held by the GOP that will be deployed day one of his candidacy if he wins the nomination. Democrats likely have all the same op research and need to use at least some of it. If after this Sanders still wins, I still will never, never vote for him–but at least he’s had to walk through the fire like other candidates and is **more likely** to be able to survive the attacks that will come in the fall. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/163 "2020-01-22T17:51:24Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > In a primary situation, it’s not a bad idea to consider which candidate’s supporters have demonstrated that they have the time and enthusiasm to actively campaign. And more of Sanders’ supporters just happen to be more unemployed than Hillary’s. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/164 "2020-01-22T17:54:19Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Umm, no. The DNC didn’t control the number of candidates. O’Malley and Webb were around. > > . Yes, I think that TECHNICALLY there were I believe 3 other democratic candidates. BUT, they got zero money and zero support from the DNC. Notice they were almost never mentioned on the campaign trail and she never had to debate them or even talked about them. It was Hillary or nobody with the DNC. The all powerful DNC has spoken! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/165 "2020-01-22T17:56:11Z")
The DNC didn’t funnel money to anyone in the primaries, candidates had to raise their own money. Hillary actually raised money **for** the DNC during her primary campaign, the DNC doesn’t pick nominees and funnel money to them during the primary season unless it’s an incumbent President. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/166 "2020-01-22T18:15:42Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Hillary Clinton on Twitter: she will support the nominee > > [https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/1219773503735508992?s=21](https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/1219773503735508992?s=21) Wow, what a relief. :rolleyes: Two thoughts: first, it doesn’t change the fact that Hillary initially refused to say she’d support the Dem nominee, whoever it was. That should have been automatic. That doesn’t speak well of her. Second, it’s a worrisome bellwether about the potential lukewarmness of the Dem establishment support for Sanders or Warren if either of them should win the nomination. We’ll see what actually happens, but if, after all the perfectly justified crap aimed at BernieBros from Dem establishment types after 2016, the Dem establishment pulls the same shit this year, there will have to be a reckoning. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/167 "2020-01-22T18:18:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > He didn’t say anything about compelled to support. He said the DNC didn’t allow other candidates. Which is wrong, so don’t respond as if it’s correct. It’s wrong, but it’s part of the anti-DNC narrative propagated by the Sanders crowd. Don’t blame the DNC for Sanders sitting on a fence for 40 years. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/168 "2020-01-22T18:19:09Z")
The media has become very negative about Sanders recently; but here’s the thing: I don’t recall one that talked about any of Sanders’ policies or anything he’s said publicly. It’s all allegations about his character and framing his supporters as extremists (without pointing to anything specific). As for Hillary, I was disgusted by her comments. This was an attempt to savage Sanders, going far beyond normal politi-speak, and again it’s about his private character. Maybe he is abrasive 1-on-1, I don’t know, but I still don’t see how it would justify her trying to bomb his campaign. Remember, Bernie went to 41 rallies in support of Clinton’s campaign. I’ve lost any sympathy that I might have had for her. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/169 "2020-01-22T18:30:57Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > In a primary situation, it’s not a bad idea to consider which candidate’s supporters have demonstrated that they have the time and enthusiasm to actively campaign. It’s a better idea to consider which candidate actually gets people to the polls and not just to the free Vampire Weekend concert. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/170 "2020-01-22T18:36:58Z")
Hillary Clinton should shut the fuck up and go away. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/171 "2020-01-22T18:47:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, I think that TECHNICALLY there were I believe 3 other democratic candidates. > > BUT, they got zero money and zero support from the DNC. Notice they were almost never mentioned on the campaign trail and she never had to debate them or even talked about them. > > It was Hillary or nobody with the DNC. > > The all powerful DNC has spoken! It’s not correct to say that the DNC, per se, refused to allow other candidates in the race, or that they would have any power to do so (certainly they wouldn’t have let Bernie in if they had had a choice!). However, it is quite true that the Democratic establishment in general chose Clinton as their candidate long before the election, to a historically unprecedented degree. 538 tracks how many endorsements candidates received over the course of the race. At this point (a couple weeks before Iowa) [2016](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/), Clinton had almost as many endorsements as all the candidates put together do right now. Joe Biden is leading [this year’s](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-endorsements/democratic-primary/)endorsement race by a wide margin, but he has less than half as many as HRC had four years ago. Clinton had gotten to where Biden is today a full nine months before the primaries started! By closing ranks so quickly around Clinton, the Democratic establishment effectively sent the message to other highly qualified and well-known candidates (like Joe Biden, for instance) that they shouldn’t bother. Thus, only obscure candidates dared to oppose her. In the end, it was down to two choices, and as we’re seeing this year, Bernie got a great many votes from people who didn’t like Clinton, but probably would have chosen someone else had the field been wider. Why did they do this? Everyone has their own reason for endorsing, of course, but many people thought that it was better for the party to avoid a potentially divisive primary campaign. That didn’t really go as planned. :DIn addition, many people were quite indignant that the Party elites appeared to have settled on a candidate long before actual voters had a chance to be heard, feeding the narrative that the party elites were arrogant and out of touch with the people. This year, thankfully, the establishment seems to have learned its lesson, and endorsements have been coming at about the historically usual pace, with most influential Democrats waiting until the voting starts to commence. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/172 "2020-01-22T19:05:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > For the same reason that British Labour had been afraid to vociferously challenge Corbyn (fear of upsetting his mindless thralls), I think many Democrats are afraid to challenge Sanders the same way he challenges them (with dishonest claims, misrepresentations, baseless claims of corruption etc) Corbyn wasn’t challenged by Labour out of fear? Corbyn survived multiple political challenges to his leadership on a quarterly basis including a leadership election, a full blown party coup leading to a second leadership election, an MP revolt and flight to set up a new party, daily personal attacks -remember Cameron’s “put on a proper suit, do up your tie” jibe, or the accusations of antisemitism?! It’s like conservatives really are living in another world here. Corbyn failed, but not because he was handled with kid gloves by his party or anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/173 "2020-01-22T19:08:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, I think that TECHNICALLY there were I believe 3 other democratic candidates. > > BUT, they got zero money and zero support from the DNC. Notice they were almost never mentioned on the campaign trail and she never had to debate them or even talked about them. > > It was Hillary or nobody with the DNC. > > The all powerful DNC has spoken! The Republican Party should have had superdelegates last time around. You might have ended up with a President who wasn’t such a disaster. Can you cite how much money Clinton got from the DNC during the primary? Thanks in advance!! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/174 "2020-01-22T19:17:33Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Corbyn wasn’t challenged by Labour out of fear? Corbyn survived multiple political challenges to his leadership on a quarterly basis including a leadership election, a full blown party coup leading to a second leadership election, an MP revolt and flight to set up a new party, daily personal attacks -remember Cameron’s “put on a proper suit, do up your tie” jibe, or the accusations of antisemitism?! > > It’s like conservatives really are living in another world here. Corbyn failed, but not because he was handled with kid gloves by his party or anybody else. I mean David Cameron did not represent a Labour challenge to Jeremy Corbyn, no. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/175 "2020-01-22T19:41:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Hillary Clinton should shut the fuck up and go away. Um, no. I want to hear a lot more from her. She’s in the perfect position to take down and humble (if possible) Sanders. The more criticism, vetting, and investigations into Sanders the better. The Democratic Party will be much better off with a muzzled impotent Sanders: we can actually get back to winning elections. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/176 "2020-01-22T19:51:21Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The Democratic Party will be much better off with a muzzled impotent Sanders: we can actually get back to winning elections. Like 2018, when so many young people I knew came out to vote _for the first time in their lives_ because of folks like Bernie and AOC? If you want to abandon the next generation of Democrats, sure, insult Bernie and his supporters. I feel differently – I want to make sure all these folks become and stay Democrats, so I want to make sure they feel welcome. Just like I want moderate Democrats in moderate/conservative districts to feel welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/177 "2020-01-22T20:05:11Z")
Dale’s obsession with Sanders goes far beyond anything worth discussing. It’s not rooted in facts. All he’s bringing to the discussion is namecalling. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/178 "2020-01-22T20:33:09Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Um, no. I want to hear a lot more from her. She’s in the perfect position to take down and humble (if possible) Sanders. > > The more criticism, vetting, and investigations into Sanders the better. The Democratic Party will be much better off with a muzzled impotent Sanders: we can actually get back to winning elections. You’re wrong on the first couple of sentences and even more wrong with the last two. Hillary Clinton’s time, and the time for her way of thinking and for the relationships she built and the goals she had, is past. She should shut the fuck up and get out of the way; “thank you for your service.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/179 "2020-01-22T20:40:26Z")
Man, I disagree with Clinton shutting up. She’s brilliant on policy, and she’s pretty good at political maneuvering when she’s got the power to do so. She just sucks at running for office, and also she’s way too conservative for my tastes. What I’d like for her to do is not to shut the fuck up; what I’d like for her to do is to work on policy and not to engage in this dalej42-style vendetta against her political opponent, who’s not nearly as good at politicking as she is but whose policies are much more in line with mine–and with a huge number of voters. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751/180 "2020-01-22T20:46:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Man, I disagree with Clinton shutting up. She’s brilliant on policy, and she’s pretty good at political maneuvering when she’s got the power to do so. She just sucks at running for office, and also she’s way too conservative for my tastes. > > What I’d like for her to do is not to shut the fuck up; what I’d like for her to do is to work on policy and not to engage in this dalej42-style vendetta against her political opponent, who’s not nearly as good at politicking as she is but whose policies are much more in line with mine–and with a huge number of voters. I think she’d be great working within the administration and would welcome her experience and perspective. I would also make sure she never had a press conference, an interview, or any kind of active social media account. I want her to shut the fuck up and go away (from any microphones, media, etc.). She is not helping the cause of Democratic politics when she steps forward and speaks publicly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-tells-it-like-it-is-about-bernie-and-his-bros/846751.md?page=10)