# Hillary won the popular vote, yet lost - obvious flaw in the system? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946 "2016-11-14T08:45:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/41 "2016-11-15T18:07:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > None of this would be a problem if we had decent and respectful politics. Like GeeDubya did in 2000, ruefully acknowledging that he failed the popular vote, and the Republicans committed themselves to centrism and respectful attention to the Dems. > > But they didn’t, did they? “Mandate!”, they said. “The people have spoken!” they said. Do you have a cite for that? I have a hard time believing the Republicans were beating the “mandate” drum in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/42 "2016-11-15T18:27:18Z")
My mistake, it was 2004. Good catch. The word was not used in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/43 "2016-11-15T18:38:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My mistake, it was 2004. Good catch. The word was not used in 2000. But in 2004 Bush did win the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/44 "2016-11-15T18:47:36Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But in 2004 Bush did win the popular vote. Yes, dear, I know, I was here. I was wrong, and said so. You need more? ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/45 "2016-11-15T19:14:12Z")
The EC is working just fine, and as intended. This question only ever comes up when the losers are looking for excuses and some"one" or some"thing" to blame for their candidate’s failure. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/46 "2016-11-15T19:35:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, dear, I know, I was here. I was wrong, and said so. You need more? Well, sweetheart, I was just pointing out that your post didn’t work even if you substituted “2004” for “2000”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/47 "2016-11-15T19:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …He said he had a “mandate” from his supporters to run as a fiery populist outsider and to rely on his raucous rallies to build support through “word of mouth… [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/12/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/12/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html) > [@](#): > > …“You have the same mandate whether it’s a close result or it isn’t. You’re the president of the United States, you have to act like the president of the United States,” Giuliani said on ABC’s “This Week.”… [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/rudy-giuliani-trump-mandate-231290](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/rudy-giuliani-trump-mandate-231290) > [@](#): > > …Ryan praised Trump for setting “the perfect tone last night” in his postelection speech, adding that Trump “earned a mandate” with his victory… [Business Insider, 11/9/16] > [@](#): > > …"He has the mandate. Not those people that, in part, created the opening for him, I would argue.”… - Sean Hannity [Republicans Outrageously Claim Trump Losing the Popular Vote is a Mandate](http://www.politicususa.com/2016/11/11/republicans-outrageously-claim-trump-losing-popular-vote-mandate.html) Had enough? (Sorry about the “dear” thing, force of habit…) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/48 "2016-11-15T20:00:33Z")
Yeah, that’s enough since I didn’t realize I was apparently arguing Trump’s people didnt say he’s got a mandate. They clearly did say that so what the heck was I talking about? The whole “mandate” thing is obviously silly posturing anyway. There’s nothing in the rulebooks about how much you win by decides how much of a president you’re allowed to be. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/49 "2016-11-15T20:07:22Z")
You’re right, just more bullshit. Long as nobody believes it, no harm done. Ah, the rub. Anyway, no hurt no foul. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/50 "2016-11-16T00:09:07Z")
Ballots still being counted… From **TIME** > [@](#): > > **Clinton currently has 61,964,263 votes compared with Trump’s 60,961,967** > > As Americans’ votes continue to be counted, Hillary Clinton‘s lead over Donald Trump in the popular vote has grown to more than 1 million people. > > According to the non-partisan Cook Political Report, Clinton currently has 61,964,263 votes compared with Trump’s 60,961,967… In other news, from [The Week](http://theweek.com/speedreads/662053/week-after-election-democrats-appear-verge-key-house-upset), a House Republican may find himself out of work: > [@](#): > > **A week after the election, Democrats appear on the verge of a key House upset** > > Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) was considered the rarest of birds: an endangered House incumbent. He won his previous eight races by comfortable margins in a reliably Republican Southern California district, until Donald Trump and changing demographics put his ninth term in jeopardy. On election night, Issa appeared to narrowly beat Democratic challenger Doug Applegate, a retired Marine colonel and Iraq War veteran, but on Monday, a new batch of ballots shrank his lead to just 2,871 votes, with another tally of mail-in and provisional ballots to be released Tuesday night. > > There are hundreds of thousands of ballots left to count, The San Diego Union-Tribune reports, though it’s not clear how many are from Issa’s 49th congressional district. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/51 "2016-11-16T04:11:07Z")
It does leave one speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/52 "2016-11-16T04:14:14Z")
Add to that how many more votes in the House Democrats have, but don’t get seats due to gerrymandering and the fact that the Senate is naturally beneficial toward over representing smaller states, and the fact that the Republicans managed to steal a Supreme Court seat. Three branches of government belong to the second place party. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/53 "2016-11-16T04:36:36Z")
Merged threads. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/54 "2016-11-16T05:10:33Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Add to that how many more votes in the House Democrats have, but don’t get seats due to gerrymandering and the fact that the Senate is naturally beneficial toward over representing smaller states, and the fact that the Republicans managed to steal a Supreme Court seat. Three branches of government belong to the second place party. Hahahaha. Well, I guess that settles everything. Someone on the internet proclaims a Hillary victory, and claims that both houses of Congress are now controlled by Democrats. This is a much simpler method than having to actually open polling places, and then count all of those cast ballots. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/55 "2016-11-16T05:22:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Well, I guess that settles everything. Someone on the internet proclaims a Hillary victory, and claims that both houses of Congress are now controlled by Democrats. This is a much simpler method than having to actually open polling places, and then count all of those cast ballots. 😕 This result IS based on counting cast ballots. And it wasn’t proclaimed by “someone on the internet.” It was Time magazine. Republicans were the ones against open polling places. They [shut down](http://boingboing.net/2016/11/07/massive-scale-shut-down-of.html) 403 in Texas alone. Both houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans. I’m not following your reasoning. And I don’t see the humor. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/56 "2016-11-16T05:40:06Z")
for historical record - > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Add to that how many more votes in the House Democrats have, but don’t get seats due to gerrymandering and the fact that the Senate is naturally beneficial toward over representing smaller states, and the fact that the Republicans managed to steal a Supreme Court seat. Three branches of government belong to the second place party. for historical record - > [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Well, I guess that settles everything. Someone on the internet proclaims a Hillary victory, and claims that both houses of Congress are now controlled by Democrats. This is a much simpler method than having to actually open polling places, and then count all of those cast ballots. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > 😕 > > This result IS based on counting cast ballots. And it wasn’t proclaimed by “someone on the internet.” It was Time magazine. > > Republicans were the ones against open polling places. They [shut down](http://boingboing.net/2016/11/07/massive-scale-shut-down-of.html) 403 in Texas alone. > > Both houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans. I’m not following your reasoning. And I don’t see the humor. Were you aware that I was responding to a post by **Fiveyearlurker**? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/57 "2016-11-16T06:20:52Z")
I availed myself of the opportunity to comment. Was that unwelcome? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/58 "2016-11-16T11:34:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > for historical record - > for historical record - > > Were you aware that I was responding to a post by **Fiveyearlurker**? I don’t see where you did that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/59 "2016-11-16T15:12:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t see where you did that. Really? Seriously? In post #54 I quoted you. I then responded to your post. **ThelmaLou** , who’s response seems a bit confused, asked for clarification, which I was happy to provide. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946/60 "2016-11-16T15:24:04Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Really? Seriously? In post #54 I quoted you. I then responded to your post. **ThelmaLou** , who’s response seems a bit confused, asked for clarification, which I was happy to provide. Nobody is confused. You responded to what you’re pretending I wrote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-won-the-popular-vote-yet-lost-obvious-flaw-in-the-system/771946.md?page=4)