# Hillary's coattails suck. Only Trump's are worse. Who would have been better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 26, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774 "2016-10-26T14:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/41 "2016-10-27T15:43:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I was really hoping that Trump would have longer coattails than he turned out to have. One reason I was rooting for him so hard to take the nomination. > > (Long coattails on a losing candidate DOES mean that he takes his party to Hell with him, right?) The Republicans can’t stop talking about Hillary and don’t seem to know who Donald Trump is and the Democratic candidates can’t stop talking about Donald Trump and seem to be vaguely aware that they have a woman at the top of their ticket. Compared to 2008 when everyone wanted their bumper stickers to read Obama/Biden/insert name here A few candidates still do this but most candidates are running on their own steam. And AFAICT, both of them are a drag on their ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/42 "2016-10-27T15:47:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll say it. > Nobody. > > If anybody other than Clinton had been nominated, we might be looking at a Trump presidency. > > Clinton’s a survivor. She was able to get through this wave of shit and succeed. Pretty much anyone else would have collapsed by this point. > > And anybody who thinks a different nominee like Sanders or Biden or O’Malley wouldn’t have faced the same wave of shit is being naive. Any of them would have been buried under a bigger mountain of shit than Clinton was. Nobody has a bigger mountain of shit than Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/43 "2016-10-27T15:52:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Nobody has a bigger mountain of shit than Hillary. Little of her “mountain” is new, and wasn’t even new when her approvals were sky high 5-6 years ago. She’s shown an incredible resiliency as compared to the decades of attacks. In general, she’s been quite popular once she’s in office, as opposed to running for office. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/44 "2016-10-27T16:01:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Maybe. But he hadnt been heavily examined or vetted. You really think after the Rove hate machine and the wikileaks hit he’d come out unscathed? > > In fact, actually Hillary is & was the best candidate just for that reason. The Karl Rove hate and lie machine, a GOP Congress and wikileaks have been hammering at her for decades and they have found little to hang their hats on. Ok, the emails, sure. > > No doubt Bernie is pretty damn honest- but he never fully released his tax returns iirc. > > [PolitiFact | Bernie Sanders has released few tax returns compared with past and present candidates](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/06/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-has-released-few-tax-returns-compar/) > > Do you really think O’Malley or Sanders would have come out of those three shitstorms clean? It’s a miracle that Clinton came out as clean as she did. > > And this will be the pattern folks. The GOP will hold hearings, hack into emails, and use Roves tactics to smear and lie about\* any\* Dem candidate. From about 2 weeks after that politifact article. Its only one year but there is absolutely nothing hinky about his tax return. Now can we get the transcripts to those speeches or is it a lie that she was paid for speeches to wall street firms that were central to the financial collapse? [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-reveal-hypocrisy](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434194/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-reveal-hypocrisy) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/45 "2016-10-27T16:03:18Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Yeah, the OP seems to be based on a fallacy that it would ever have been possible to flip the House. My understanding is that the districts are so gerrymandered that you need a D+10 sort of election before that happens. And the country is so polarized that around 40% is about as low as even The Donald can fall. Note, though, that nobody is really polling House elections, so who knows what’s going to happen on Nov. 8. > > It’s also the case that while voters unanimously hate Congress, they all mostly approve of their own particular Congresscritter. > > Also, according to Cake,you only need a long jacket with a short skirt, and Hillary wears pantsuits. Obama won 26 districts currently represented by Republicans. If he was running against Trump in 2012, In think we would have a Democratic majority in the house and the senate in the cards. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/46 "2016-10-27T16:05:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But the corollary to the corollary is that it’s all old news. Real mudslinging requires fresh mud and the conservatives told all the good lies about Clinton twenty years ago. > I disagree. I think attacking his opponents is the one part of the political process Trump is enthusiastic about. Nah, there’s plenty of stuff she’s done in the last 20 years. That’s when she made most of her money and deleted most of her emails. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/47 "2016-10-27T16:12:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What about through most of the primaries, as well as today? I think you’ll find the numbers are (and were) a lot higher for Democrats. I was looking at the latest one at [pollingreport.com](http://pollingreport.com). I don’t see any point in time when her favorable among democrats was higher than 80% during 2015/2016. I would guess her favorability was higher when she was secretary but her favorability was 66% and rending down. It probably hit a low after the DNC convention and the Debbie wasserman schultz stuff came out. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/48 "2016-10-27T16:15:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Little of her “mountain” is new, and wasn’t even new when her approvals were sky high 5-6 years ago. She’s shown an incredible resiliency as compared to the decades of attacks. In general, she’s been quite popular once she’s in office, as opposed to running for office. Paid speeches to wall street. Deleted emails after being subpoenaed. If being first lady is an “office” (it was certainly one of the most important parts of her resume when she ran the first time), then oshe is not always popular when in office. She wasn’t even particularly popular when she was senator of NY. Just kind of meh. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/49 "2016-10-27T16:18:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Paid speeches to wall street. > > . I’m not sure why anyone cares about this. She’s not going to be doing that as POTUS. Getting paid for giving speeches not the same as selling out. There are certainly things that bother me about Secretary Clinton, but this isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/50 "2016-10-27T16:28:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I was looking at the latest one at [pollingreport.com](http://pollingreport.com). I don’t see any point in time when her favorable among democrats was higher than 80% during 2015/2016. I would guess her favorability was higher when she was secretary but her favorability was 66% and rending down. It probably hit a low after the DNC convention and the Debbie wasserman schultz stuff came out. 80 is pretty damn high. Not quite Obama level, but still quite good. According to [this poll](https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/08/07/National-Politics/Polling/question_16670.xml?uuid=pkE7mlxTEeaLSAyzRCIRMQ) in August, her favorability was 87% among Democrats. That’s very close to Obama level. Can’t find any for this moment, but that August poll showed Clinton up in the general election by 8, pretty close to her lead over Trump now, so I think it’s possible that it’s that high now as well. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Paid speeches to wall street. > > Deleted emails after being subpoenaed. > > If being first lady is an “office” (it was certainly one of the most important parts of her resume when she ran the first time), then oshe is not always popular when in office. She wasn’t even particularly popular when she was senator of NY. Just kind of meh. Kind of small compared to all the shit from before. YMMV. Didn’t matter much to Democratic voters – the big (temporary) hit she took to favorability with Democrats was due to a tough primary with Bernie and DNC shenanigans, it seems to me. IMO, she was/is a popular (with Democrats) and very widely known Democrat with lots of connections and fundraising abilities, and such a candidate will usually win a party primary, barring a massively talented dark horse like Obama. That’s why she won the nomination, and why she won it by a pretty comfortable margin. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/51 "2016-10-27T16:31:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IMO, she was/is a popular (with Democrats) and very widely known Democrat with lots of connections and fundraising abilities, and such a candidate will usually win a party primary, barring a massively talented dark horse like Obama. That’s why she won the nomination, and why she won it by a pretty comfortable margin. Yep. In addition to, as you said, very high favorability among Democrats, she had spent time over the last couple years working to get people on her side. It’s kind of similar to what Republican politicians like George W. Bush did before they ran for office. That’s not a coronation, that’s good politics. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/52 "2016-10-27T16:32:23Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There are 26 seats that Obama won in 2012 that are held by Republicans. > > We need to flip 30 Republican seats to take the house. > > We aren’t even going to take those 26. Not even close. And we’re running against Trump. What you mean “we”? You dont support the Democrats. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/53 "2016-10-27T16:33:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Paid speeches to wall street. > > Deleted emails after being subpoenaed. > > If being first lady is an “office” (it was certainly one of the most important parts of her resume when she ran the first time), then oshe is not always popular when in office. She wasn’t even particularly popular when she was senator of NY. Just kind of meh. See, as i said, you continue to attack Hillary. With bogus attacks, mind you. So cut with this “we” shit. Nothing at all wrong with the speeches. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/54 "2016-10-27T16:40:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Nah, there’s plenty of stuff she’s done in the last 20 years. That’s when she made most of her money and deleted most of her emails. And I heard she ate several meals during this period and by doing so she contributed to hunger in the third world. Emails and speeches are a joke. The only people who pretend these are issues are people who already had made up their minds about Clinton long ago. I doubt there are ten people in this country who changed their opinion about Hillary Clinton over the these issues. Like I’ve said, you guys used up all your A material long ago. And you B and C and D material. So now nobody cares about the stuff you’re scraping out of the bottom of the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/55 "2016-10-27T17:47:43Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > As stated, O’Malley and Webb did. Both were perfectly fine mainstream Democrats, yet their candidacies didn’t go anywhere. That leads me to believe that most of the Democratic primary voters had a choice but preferred Clinton, unless you want to go full Trump and say that all of the polls that showed a strong preference for Clinton were “Rigged”. The new 21st century definition of rigged is going to simply be anything which goes against what the speaker personally believes, I’m afraid. I miss the days where reality meant something to people. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/56 "2016-10-27T18:04:52Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Yeah, the OP seems to be based on a fallacy that it would ever have been possible to flip the House. My understanding is that the districts are so gerrymandered that you need a D+10 sort of election before that happens. Just for the record, if the Dems won every House district with a Cook PVI of R+2, R+1, even, or D+something, the Dems would have a 220-215 House majority. So yeah, the combination of concentrated Dem support in urban areas, and GOP gerrymandering, has made winning the House a somewhat uphill battle for the Dems. But not monumentally uphill. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/57 "2016-10-28T00:59:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure why anyone cares about this. She’s not going to be doing that as POTUS. Getting paid for giving speeches not the same as selling out. There are certainly things that bother me about Secretary Clinton, but this isn’t one of them. People care what she said during those speeches. And it is now becoming clear that she thought that the answer to fixing wall street should come from wall street. Or at least that is what she told wall street. It is becoming clear that she wanted open borders and free trade, at least that is what she told banks in Brazil. So what bothers you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/58 "2016-10-28T01:11:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 80 is pretty damn high. Not quite Obama level, but still quite good. According to [this poll](https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/08/07/National-Politics/Polling/question_16670.xml?uuid=pkE7mlxTEeaLSAyzRCIRMQ) in August, her favorability was 87% among Democrats. That’s very close to Obama level. There are 49 polling questions and the one you linked isn’t for Democrats only. I would be surprised if 87% of Democrats had a favorable view of Hillary. I would be surprised if only 13% of Democrats had a negative view of Hillary. The 80% was from when she was secretary of State. Biden’s favorability has been higher than that. > [@](#): > > Can’t find any for this moment, but that August poll showed Clinton up in the general election by 8, pretty close to her lead over Trump now, so I think it’s possible that it’s that high now as well. [Pollingreport.com](http://Pollingreport.com) is a poll aggregator. I have not noticed them leaving out polls to skew things one way or the other. and they have her favorability in the negative zone. They have her leading trump but only because Trump is deeper in the negative zone. imagine if we had a candidate that most people actually liked :eek::eek::eek: > [@](#): > > Kind of small compared to all the shit from before. YMMV. Didn’t matter much to Democratic voters – the big (temporary) hit she took to favorability with Democrats was due to a tough primary with Bernie and DNC shenanigans, it seems to me. > > IMO, she was/is a popular (with Democrats) and very widely known Democrat with lots of connections and fundraising abilities, and such a candidate will usually win a party primary, barring a massively talented dark horse like Obama. That’s why she won the nomination, and why she won it by a pretty comfortable margin. Bernie hurt her because it revealed to many Democrats that Hillary is a 1980’s Republican. DNC hurt her because it made everyone realize that the primary process might have been fixed and everyone else was boxed out. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/59 "2016-10-28T01:30:23Z")
I live in Virginia, she isn’t winning Virginia, Trump is losing it. Trump has driven Virginia… VIRGINIA… into the blue column. If she was running any of the last DOZEN Republican presidential nominees she would lose. The last Republican nominee she could have beaten was Barry Goldwater, the Republican she campaigned for. Last election cycle, the Democrats were attaching themselves to Obama at the hip. All the bumper stickers would say Obama/Biden/insert name here. This year one of the tightest races has been between Luanne Bennett and Barabara Comstock and Luanne Bennett isn’t tying herself to Hillary, she tying her opponent to Trump. She is dodging any questions referring to Hillary, she was supposed to be a sacrificial lamb, this district voted for Romney and Cucinelli (of vaginal probe fame) and Luann would be winning this one easily if she wasn’t being dragged down by the top of her ticket. Hillary will win but she isn’t bringing a lot of New Democrats to DC with her. Almost anyone running against Trump would. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774/60 "2016-10-28T01:33:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What you mean “we”? You dont support the Democrats. :dubious: Of course I do. I have supported Democrats since 2003. Or are you under the impression that you can’t be a Democrat unless you loooove Hillary? Do you know something about me that I don’t know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-coattails-suck-only-trumps-are-worse-who-would-have-been-better/769774.md?page=4)