# Hillary's Educational Swat Team idea **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 15, 2016, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048 "2016-03-15T09:03:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/61 "2016-03-20T21:07:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why cant they just put in some window unit air conditioners? My sons school is a retrofitted elementary school where they took out the old system and just replaced it with window units. Surely, **Urbanredneck** , SURELY you’re not suggesting we just throw money at the problem! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/62 "2016-03-21T03:42:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So since I end up teaching the stuff anyways, why not just homeschool? The simple answer is because your kids end up all kinds of fucked up if they don’t get the social interaction with their peers that they get at a more traditional school. Not necessarily in terms of being almost autistic or anything, but just sheltered and kind of weird. Every homeschooled kid I’ve ever known, and every adult I’ve ever known who was homeschooled had this really eerie pop-culture and life experience gap from everyone else, and it’s really weird. I think the reasons probably vary a lot by part of the country- in the South, it’s primarily a religious/evangelical thing. Elsewhere, it probably varies more. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/63 "2016-03-21T05:47:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The simple answer is because your kids end up all kinds of fucked up if they don’t get the social interaction with their peers that they get at a more traditional school. Not necessarily in terms of being almost autistic or anything, but just sheltered and kind of weird. > > Every homeschooled kid I’ve ever known, and every adult I’ve ever known who was homeschooled had this really eerie pop-culture and life experience gap from everyone else, and it’s really weird. > > I think the reasons probably vary a lot by part of the country- in the South, it’s primarily a religious/evangelical thing. Elsewhere, it probably varies more. You have NO IDEA of all the clubs, organized groups, and activities homeschooled kids participate in. Around here they also have their own sports league. Ok, maybe they dont know who Beyonce is, dont know how to twerk, dont cyberbully, and dont demand the latest designer clothes - big deal. Hell that’s a good thing. Lets not forget they also didnt grow up dealing with bullying either and are not burned out after 12 years of public school. Here is an [article](http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp) where they proved homeschooled kids actually did 15%-30% better on standardized tests. Here is an article titled [The World’s 15 Most Extraordinary Homeschoolers](http://www.thebestcolleges.org/the-worlds-15-most-extraordinary-homeschoolers/) If those people are “weird” so what? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/64 "2016-03-21T06:50:21Z")
You know what they say about an attorney who represents himself. As far as the standardized test thing is concerned, here’s some interesting stuff on that very topic, looking at SAT and ACT scores: > **[The Homeschool Math Gap: The Data - Coalition for Responsible Home Education](https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/the-homeschool-math-gap/)** > > The question of how homeschooled students fare academically has been raised countless times over the past three-and-a-half decades. Numerous volunteer-based studies have compared homeschooled students’ percentile scores on standardized tests with the... (Rather long, but worth the read.) It posits that homeschooled students do less well at math, for a series of complicated reasons you’ll have to read yourself to find out. Here’s one of the points I found interesting: > [@](#): > > All this said, comparatively few homeschoolers take the SAT or ACT. While 2% of all students were homeschooled in 2001, only 0.5% of students who took the SAT were homeschooled. The same is true of the ACT. In 2011, when 3.4% of all students were homeschooled, only 0.8% of those taking the ACT were homeschooled. This is relevant to the homeschool math gap in several ways. > > Because taking the SAT or ACT is voluntary for homeschooled students, those homeschooled students who do take these exams are likely to be those most prepared—those who are college-bound. The same is less true for public school students, because some states and some school districts require students to take the SAT or ACT, either as another assessment or to encourage college attendance. This difference may serve to elevate homeschooled students’ scores relative to public school students. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/65 "2016-03-21T10:48:43Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why cant they just put in some window unit air conditioners? My sons school is a retrofitted elementary school where they took out the old system and just replaced it with window units. I want to expand on my previous snarky answer. There are several parts to why your solution isn’t being done: 1. Pragmatically, it’d be very difficult. Our rooms have 15’ ceilings or so, meaning a small window unit air conditioner wouldn’t suffice for the whole room. The windows themselves are short and wide, a nonstandard size that wouldn’t fit a large unit. The windows don’t slide open, they swivel. You’d need to do a lot of work to make your solution feasible. 2. As happens way too often in public education, the people making the decisions about how to spend money are sitting in quiet, climate-controlled offices miles away from where the teaching happens. Central office’s copiers always work, their rooms are always a reasonable temperature, their projectors always have fresh bulbs, because they can see those things and make decisions quickly about them. Not so for classrooms. 3. There ain’t no money. Like I said, this is one small example. Other classrooms, and the library, suffer the same problem I described; others suffer from chill during fall/spring. That’s just one issue at one school. Other schools just in our district have similar issues. But when teachers talk about improving facilities, sure as shootin someone’s gonna pull out Kansas fucking City to show that throwing money at education won’t help, so why should we listen to teachers complaining about hot classrooms? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/66 "2016-03-21T11:15:59Z")
We’ve had these discussions before but I would like to once again share this article about the extremely high performing [Finnish system](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/). > [@](#): > > Finland has ranked at or near the top in all three competencies on every survey since 2000, neck and neck with superachievers such as South Korea and Singapore. In the most recent survey in 2009 Finland slipped slightly, with students in Shanghai, China, taking the best scores, but the Finns are still near the very top. Throughout the same period, the PISA performance of the United States has been middling, at best. > > Compared with the stereotype of the East Asian model – long hours of exhaustive cramming and rote memorization – Finland’s success is especially intriguing because Finnish schools assign less homework and engage children in more creative play. All this has led to a continuous stream of foreign delegations making the pilgrimage to Finland to visit schools and talk with the nation’s education experts, and constant coverage in the worldwide media marveling at the Finnish miracle. … > > … Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality. > > In the Finnish view, as Sahlberg describes it, this means that schools should be healthy, safe environments for children. This starts with the basics. Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance. > > In fact, since academic excellence wasn’t a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland’s students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland – unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway – was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equity. > > That this point is almost always ignored or brushed aside in the U.S. seems especially poignant at the moment, after the financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street movement have brought the problems of inequality in America into such sharp focus. … It is likely more complicated for a society as diverse as ours, but I do suspect there are lessons there. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/67 "2016-03-21T11:41:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > We’ve had these discussions before but I would like to once again share this article about the extremely high performing [Finnish system](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/).It is likely more complicated for a society as diverse as ours, but I do suspect there are lessons there. One of the ways diversity hits us especially hard is that one small American subculture–the extremely wealthy–is really averse to assimilation. The idea that equity of education should include their own children is anathema to them. Aren’t they entitled to a better education than the peasantry? Unfortunately, that subculture has a hugely disproportionate impact on public education policy. Until we can either remove that subculture’s outsized influence, or change that subculture, I don’t see us going to the Finnish model. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/68 "2016-03-21T15:39:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > We’ve had these discussions before but I would like to once again share this article about the extremely high performing [Finnish system](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/).It is likely more complicated for a society as diverse as ours, but I do suspect there are lessons there. [Sure, but Finland’s public spending is grinding them down pretty hard.](http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-is-in-a-grave-situation-2015-6) Not sure if the US wants to go down that path either. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/69 "2016-03-21T18:23:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. There ain’t no money. Like I said, this is one small example. Other classrooms, and the library, suffer the same problem I described; others suffer from chill during fall/spring. That’s just one issue at one school. Other schools just in our district have similar issues. But when teachers talk about improving facilities, sure as shootin someone’s gonna pull out Kansas fucking City to show that throwing money at education won’t help, so why should we listen to teachers complaining about hot classrooms? There’s one surefire solution to that, though it’ll probably never happen. Just have the decision makers sit in your classroom for a couple hours at the right time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/70 "2016-03-21T19:42:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > [Sure, but Finland’s public spending is grinding them down pretty hard.](http://www.businessinsider.com/finland-is-in-a-grave-situation-2015-6) Not sure if the US wants to go down that path either. I’m not seeing anything in that article saying that it’s public education that’s specifically problematic. > [@that article](#): > > He says many of Finland’s woes stem from “four shocks” that hit at the same time: the decline of Nokia and the country’s paper industry, the retirement of a generation of baby boomers, high labour costs, which have made the economy uncompetitive, and the fallout from the Russian crisis. The only mention of education is when the article says that: > [@](#): > > Finland’s employment gender gap in 2012 was the second smallest in the EU after Latvia, according to the European Commission, while it also topped the World Economic Forum’s education, skills and employment league table, which looks at how well countries nurture and develop its people. Education is a plus there, not a minus. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/71 "2016-03-21T20:22:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > One of the ways diversity hits us especially hard is that one small American subculture–the extremely wealthy–is really averse to assimilation. The idea that equity of education should include their own children is anathema to them. Aren’t they entitled to a better education than the peasantry? > > Unfortunately, that subculture has a hugely disproportionate impact on public education policy. Until we can either remove that subculture’s outsized influence, or change that subculture, I don’t see us going to the Finnish model. That goes down to even the middle classes. Parents want the best for their kids. But that is THEIR kids. Other kids are other parents problems. We see this all the time in our area where they will fight tooth and nail over school boundary zones to either keep certain kids out or to prevent their own kids from being switched to another school. They also push this in real estate and housing to only allow homes of a certain size and cost to be built in the area and definitely no apartments or section 8 housing. I think they have also threatened to pull their kids out of the public schools and put them into private ones. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/72 "2016-03-21T20:24:26Z")
Looking at this discussion and going back to the original issue, I think for Hillarys “swat team” idea to actually work they must have the ability to 1. hire and fire staff. 2. to redraw district attendance boundaries. 3. to raise local taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/73 "2016-03-21T20:27:03Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That goes down to even the middle classes. Parents want the best for their kids. But that is THEIR kids. Other kids are other parents problems. We see this all the time in our area where they will fight tooth and nail over school boundary zones to either keep certain kids out or to prevent their own kids from being switched to another school. They also push this in real estate and housing to only allow homes of a certain size and cost to be built in the area and definitely no apartments or section 8 housing. > > I think they have also threatened to pull their kids out of the public schools and put them into private ones. Absolutely. Parents who benefit from an unequal economic system see no reason why they should support public education: why shouldn’t their kids get an unfair advantage in life over their neighbors’ kids? It’s one thing to put your own kids in private school. While that has some effect on other kids, the effect is relatively small compared to the advantage to yourself. But the true proponents of inequality are those who put their kids in private schools while voting to defund public schools and voting to maintain unequal housing patterns and voting to support public education funding schemes that privilege rich communities. These are people who truly believe in an unjust educational model, a model that rewards US citizens for the great virtue of being born into wealth. As long as people who support this model hold significant political power, we’re not going to achieve any fundamental meaningful educational reform. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/74 "2016-03-21T20:43:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > One of the ways diversity hits us especially hard is that one small American subculture–the extremely wealthy–is really averse to assimilation. The idea that equity of education should include their own children is anathema to them. Aren’t they entitled to a better education than the peasantry? > > Unfortunately, that subculture has a hugely disproportionate impact on public education policy. Until we can either remove that subculture’s outsized influence, or change that subculture, I don’t see us going to the Finnish model. I doubt it’s quite like that; every really wealthy person I’ve met (mostly parents of high school classmates) had an attitude that was less elitist, and more along the lines of “If I have the resources to send my kids to better schools than the local public schools and to fund those schools better, that’s a good use of my resources.” I think that’s really the driving factor with wealth-driven educational disparity- wealthy parents are more able and willing to spend their time and effort on their kids’ schooling, up to and including private schools than less wealthy people. Not out of some kind of mustache-twirling desire to segregate themselves from the hoi polloi, but because, like parents everywhere, they want their kids to have the best chance at success that they can provide. It just happens that their resources for achieving that are drastically greater than a working class person’s. I see it in my nearby schools. One (Skyview Elementary) has a student body that’s highly low income and transient, from the nearby low income apartments. They struggle to get parents to even participate in the PTA at all. Another school in the same district, about a mile away (Moss Haven), has little to no apartment children, and has a relatively well-to-do student body. Its PTA is one of those ones that raises hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for various school improvements and initiatives, despite the school being about 2/3 the size of Skyview. Many of the more well-to-do parents in the Skyview zone either put their children in private school or get them transferred to other district schools (since Skyview is deemed to be “failing”, there’s a state provision for parents to transfer their children out). This isn’t a socioeocnomic hatred thing, it’s very much a desire to not short-change their children. Personally, I think that parental involvement in a student’s education is probably the biggest predictor of a school’s overall success. Most attempts to improve education tend to revolve around substituting for various things that parents ideally would provide. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/75 "2016-03-21T21:11:56Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I doubt it’s quite like that; every really wealthy person I’ve met (mostly parents of high school classmates) had an attitude that was less elitist, and more along the lines of “If I have the resources to send my kids to better schools than the local public schools and to fund those schools better, that’s a good use of my resources.” > > I think that’s really the driving factor with wealth-driven educational disparity- wealthy parents are more able and willing to spend their time and effort on their kids’ schooling, up to and including private schools than less wealthy people. Not out of some kind of mustache-twirling desire to segregate themselves from the hoi polloi, but because, like parents everywhere, they want their kids to have the best chance at success that they can provide. It just happens that their resources for achieving that are drastically greater than a working class person’s. I’m not positing moustache-twirling. I’m positing that wealthy people think that a child’s chance for success should be primarily determined by the parents’ resources, and that ideology just so happens to put their own child on unequal footing. Until wealthy people believe that their resources are best used to benefit **all** children (via higher taxes for public ed), or until wealthy people have decreased influence on educational funding, we’re not going to have fundamental effective educational reform. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/76 "2016-03-21T21:45:00Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Looking at this discussion and going back to the original issue, I think for Hillarys “swat team” idea to actually work they must have the ability to 1. hire and fire staff. 2. to redraw district attendance boundaries. 3. to raise local taxes. Well if we are doubling back to the op, realize that the question she was answering was what she would do to immediately help children in broken schools. [Specifically](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/us/politics/transcript-democratic-presidential-debate.html): > [@](#): > > Speaking of opportunities for success, in Detroit, schools open and close with no accountability to — or transparency to the communities that it — they service. > > Not only that — in our schools, as you’ve stated, we have issues with rats, mold, no working water fountains, not to mention non- certified teachers, lack of accountability around transportation and special education, and so much more.QUESTION: With that said, our students can no longer suffer due to lack of these things, or having these dilapidated issues take place. So, my question is who’s going to step up? Who’s going to ensure that the policies procedures are put in place that will ensure, and bring forth a successful future for our students because my daughter cannot wait eight more years for success to take place at your hands. At the leader’s hands… Sanders responded first: > [@Sanders](#): > > Somehow we cannot do what other countries around the world, is provide quality childcare and pre-K. We have got to change our national priorities, no more tax breaks for billionaires, and large corporations. > > We are going to invest in our children, and have the best public school system in the world. Her answer was: > [@](#): > > CLINTON: Mrs. Kim (ph), here is what I would do as president. Number one, I would reinstate a program we did have during the 1990’s where the federal government provided funding to repair and modernize public schools because a lot of communities can’t afford to do that on their own. > > (APPLAUSE) > > CLINTON: Secondly, I would use every legal means at my disposal to try to force the Governor and the state to return the schools to the people of Detroit — to end the emergency management… > > (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING) > > CLINTON: … which, I believe, if you look at the data, the situation has only gotten worse with these emergency managers that have put the system further in debt. > > (APPLAUSE) > > CLINTON: Number three, I want to set-up inside the Department of Education, for want of a better term, kind of an education SWAT team, if you will. Where we’ve got qualified people, teachers, principals, maybe folks who are retired, maybe folks who are active, but all of whom are willing to come and help. When Detroit gets back their schools, they should have all the help they can get to be able to get teachers in the classroom, to be able to find spaces while schools are being repaired. And, I also would look at how we could through the federal government support more teachers because we’re going to have a teacher shortage in some of the hardest to teach districts…(APPLAUSE) > > COOPER: … (inaudible) > > CLINTON: … including Detroit. So yes, money to repair crumbling infrastructure, specific to Detroit the return of local control, an education special forces unit of sorts to assist in the sorts of crisis situations the question specifically mentioned, and acknowledgement that something more needs to be done to support getting good teachers in the hardest to teach districts, with no specific plan as to what that would be. No the basic concept was not having federal teams identifying the poorly performing and taking over districts; just one option for emergent crisis circumstances such as those they were specifically asked about. It was perhaps a bit more detailed than Sanders’ “tax the rich more” answer but for all its three points it was still fairly short on meat. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/77 "2016-03-21T22:17:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not positing moustache-twirling. I’m positing that wealthy people think that a child’s chance for success should be primarily determined by the parents’ resources, and that ideology just so happens to put their own child on unequal footing. Until wealthy people believe that their resources are best used to benefit **all** children (via higher taxes for public ed), or until wealthy people have decreased influence on educational funding, we’re not going to have fundamental effective educational reform. The wealthy people I know prefer to pay higher taxes and have better public schools and are willing to move specifically to where those high taxes and school systems exist. They live in the more expensive homes and pay more in taxes for the education than someone who lives in a less expensive home or who rents n the same community. Some will then not be satisfied and go private (usually Catholic) all the while still paying the high real estate taxes. No question human nature is the same for those of upper income brackets as of lower: we care more about our own kids than we do everyone else’s. We’ll vote for higher taxes to fund better schools for all but we will fight viciously to make sure our kids get what they need. My prefered solution to educational inequality is _not_ lowering my kids’ educational quality to the lowest common level and I would do pretty much whatever it takes to make sure my children got quality education using whatever resources I have at my disposal to do so. I want quality education for all and am willing to be taxed more to help make that happen but I will expend much to make sure that it is there for my kids. Yes, I can afford private testing and tutoring, if I, or let’s face it, my wife, decides it is potential value for one of my children, even while attending a well funded good school with good teachers. That’s not a feature of what wealthy parents think; it is a feature of being a parent. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/78 "2016-03-22T00:05:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The wealthy people I know prefer to pay higher taxes and have better public schools and are willing to move specifically to where those high taxes and school systems exist. They live in the more expensive homes and pay more in taxes for the education than someone who lives in a less expensive home or who rents n the same community. Sure: they vote for taxes **within their district** , maybe. But they don’t vote for equitable schemes. We’re looking at the same set of facts. I judge people a lot more harshly on this than you do, is all. It’s not enough to look after your own kids, if you do so by propping up an immensely inequitable system. If you support your own kids but vote for policies that perpetuate inequality, I think you’re condemnable on those grounds. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/79 "2016-03-22T04:12:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Until wealthy people believe that their resources are best used to benefit **all** children (via higher taxes for public ed), or until wealthy people have decreased influence on educational funding, we’re not going to have fundamental effective educational reform. Sure, but what’s in it for them? More importantly, what benefit does that give their children? If there’s one thing I’ve learned, people will be generous, kind, thoughtful, etc… until something threatens their children in some way, be that physically, fiscally, or just levels the playing field. Then all bets are off. Expecting the wealthy to deliberately forego the benefits of wealth for their children in the name of having effective educational reform for other people is not the way the world works. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048/80 "2016-03-22T04:18:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Absolutely. Parents who benefit from an unequal economic system see no reason w > But the true proponents of inequality are those who put their kids in private schools while voting to defund public schools and voting to maintain unequal housing patterns and voting to support public education funding schemes that privilege rich communities. These are people who truly believe in an unjust educational model, a model that rewards US citizens for the great virtue of being born into wealth. As long as people who support this model hold significant political power, we’re not going to achieve any fundamental meaningful educational reform. I’m sure that exists but in my area the wealthy are willing to pay the higher taxes. To me the people who are the biggest hypocrites are the liberals who talk big about diversity and supporting public education, yet put their own children in private schools AND vote down voucher plans which would help poor families go to other schools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillarys-educational-swat-team-idea/749048.md?page=5)