# Hillsborough - 20 years ago today **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207 "2009-04-15T19:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/1 "2009-04-15T19:05:59Z")
Twenty years ago today, 96 people died of crushing and suffocation at Hillsborough football ground in Sheffield, England. I have a pretty strong constitution, and tend not to have much of a visceral reaction to the various human tragedies that make the news, but for some reason this one always freaked me out a bit. I still feel a sort of claustrophobia when i see the pictures of the fans jammed against that metal fence. I can’t imagine what their last moments must have been like. The fence that held them in was designed largely as a behavior control device, designed to keep fans off the playing surface, and way from fans of the opposing team. Unfortunately, it ended up being reason so many were unable to escape. After the disaster, and the various inquests and reports, new stadiums were built as all-seat stadiums, in an effort to avert similar incidents. No Brit who was around in 1989 will have forgotten the incident, but those who don’t know about it can read a more detailed description on the [Hillsborough Disaster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster) Wiki entry. A Google news search will also bring up plenty of current articles. Here’s a couple of images from contemporary newspaper accounts. I’ve broken the links because, although they’re not really NSFW (no blood and gore), they’re still pretty graphic in their own way. [https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public\_html/gen\_images/hillsborough1.jpg](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/hillsborough1.jpg) [https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public\_html/gen\_images/hillsborough2.jpg](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/hillsborough2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/2 "2009-04-15T20:08:13Z")
Coincidentally, this December will be thirty years since the tragedy at the [Who concert in Cincinnati](http://www.crowdsafe.com/taskrpt/) that helped to end much of “festival” seating at concert halls in the United States. Didn’t really know about the Hillsborough tragedy at the time, but have heard about it a lot since. Senseless stuff like that just boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/3 "2009-04-15T20:14:10Z")
Saw a moving interview with Bruce Grobbelaar, the Liverpool goalkeeper that day, earlier on. He said the thought that people had died coming to watch him play, made him consider retiring in the weeks after the event. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/4 "2009-04-16T08:42:18Z")
I saw the tribute on football focus (BBC tv program) this satrurday and the stories just made me shudder. The parents who lost both their doughters, the stories of players going to see a 14 year old in hospital only to be told they were going to pull the plug later that day, current Liverpool player Gerrard about hoping no one he knew was hurt and getting the dreaded knock the next day… ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/5 "2009-04-16T13:31:07Z")
I’ve had two experiences which give me a little insight on what those people went through. As a 13 yr old, on my first time in Man. United’s Stretford End, before the match had started I’d pushed my way through to the crush barrier separating our tier from the next level, and against the advice of a man near me, decided to stay there rather than climb over. When the teams came out, there was a surge from the back and my scrawny little chest was rammed against the barrier. I can remember trying to get my hands up from my sides, but the next thing I knew, I was on the other side of the barrier being held up by the man who had warned me. The other time was only weeks later. Coming out of the same part of the ground, I’d lost sight of my mates and decided to follow the crowd over a bridge that crossed the railway line that ran alongside the ground. The bridge was about 20 foot wide with head-high concrete walls either side and about 30 steps leading up to the flat section. I’ve no idea how many people were trying to cross it, but by the time I’d reached the top of the steps, the crush was that great that my feet were off the floor as we slowly moved across the 20 metres of bridge before it widened out again. I never passed out this time, but for the minutes it took to reach the other side, I was fully aware that if I fell to the floor I would be trampled. Bearing in mind the lack of adequate crowd control in those days, I think it was just sheer good fortune that there hadn’t already been a ‘Hillsborough’ type event in English football. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/6 "2009-04-16T18:42:22Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > I saw the tribute on football focus (BBC tv program) this satrurday and the stories just made me shudder. Which somehow made its way to [Youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtRs-3jQmf8&feature=related) and hasn’t yet been yanked. A friend of mine keeps complaining that the atmosphere at grounds these days is “shit” and I think he’s warped. I mean, really - good atmosphere vs. chance of dying? Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Zetetic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/74df32/32.png) [@Zetetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zetetic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/7 "2009-04-16T20:53:16Z")
A few weeks after the disaster I was at Celtic Park in Glasgow with my dad, waiting for the teams to come out before kick-off. It’s maybe the second or third football game I can remember going to (I was 12 years old) and it was a memorial match for the victims, played between Liverpool and Celtic. It’s the only match I’ve ever been to at which there has been absolutely no segregation between opposing fans. We were standing on the terraces and a guy I was at school with walked past us wearing a liverpool shirt although, like me, he was a Celtic supporter. There were a bunch of guys behind me talking with broad scouse accents who were wearing celtic tops (one of them had his liverpool scarf though which he was was happy to trade for my celtic one - I’ve still got it). The teams came out and took up alternating positions around the centre circle, then there was the eerie atmosphere of 60 thousand people being completely silent for two minutes. I’m in no way claiming to share the depth of emotion experienced by the friends/families of those who died, but it was still pretty harrowing. I don’t even think I fully understood what was going on at the time, I was just affected by the sight of all the people unashamedly crying. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/8 "2012-09-13T00:37:01Z")
Reopening this thread for the release of the Hillsborough Disaster Report. The Guardian has a [summary](http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/12/hillsborough-disaster-report-panel-released-live) of the developments. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]The attorney general is to decide whether to apply to the high court to quash the original, flawed inquest which returned a verdict of accidental death and order a new one after an independent report into the Hillsborough disaster revealed that 41 victims “had the potential to survive”.[/li][li] The Hillsborough Independent Panel found that South Yorkshire Police and the emergency services made “strenuous attempts” to deflect the blame for the crush onto victims.[/li][li] The report found 116 police statements were “amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to South Yorkshire Police”.[/li][li] Police carried out blood alcohol readings on victims, including children, and ran national computer checks on some of them in an attempt to “impugn their reputations”.[/li][li] The panel found “no evidence …to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans”.[/li][li] Prime minister David Cameron said he is “profoundly sorry” for the “double injustice” of the Hillsborough disaster.[/li][li] Kelvin MacKenzie, Sun editor when the paper ran a story blaming fans, offered “profuse apologies” for the headline. The Sun’s current editor Dominic Mohan aslo apologised.[/li][li] David Compton, chief constable of South Yorkshire Police, “profoundly apologises” to families of the 96 victims and Liverpool fans in general.[/li][/ul] And [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19574108) is the text of David Cameron’s apology for the government’s handling of the incident. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/9 "2012-09-13T00:59:46Z")
That’s a pretty explosive set of findings. The attempts to blame the victims are the most sickening to me. Here’s a link to the [whole report.](http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/10 "2019-11-28T23:33:14Z")
Updating this zombie thread: > [@](#): > > Bereaved Hillsborough families have reacted with outrage to the not guilty verdict delivered in the prosecution for manslaughter of the former South Yorkshire police chief superintendent David Duckenfield, who was in command of the 1989 FA Cup semi-final at which 96 people were fatally injured. > > The verdict followed a 30-year campaign for justice by the families, which in 2012 led to the quashing of the original 1991 inquest and its verdict of accidental death, and a new legal process. > **[Hillsborough families voice outrage at not guilty verdict](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/28/hillsborough-families-outraged-david-duckenfield-not-guilty-verdict)** > > Families furious as former police chief David Duckenfield is cleared of manslaughter Although I haven’t followed the case it would seem to me to be a case of incompetence rather than manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/11 "2019-12-02T14:25:39Z")
There is a good [ESPN 30 for 30 documentary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_(2014_film)) on this. Well worth checking out, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillsborough-20-years-ago-today/493207/12 "2019-12-02T15:01:40Z")
As I understand it (though the laws might be different on your side of the pond), manslaughter can include incompetence. Usually the standard is something like “actions which a reasonable person would understand to carry a significant risk of death”.