# Hil's too sexy for this pic, Sec of State's gonna leave me. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255 "2011-05-09T11:03:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/161 "2011-05-10T20:10:06Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Given that the majority of the world’s Jewish pop. lives in the US or Israel, I dunno how this could possibly be reconciled with Orthodox Jews making up 35-45% of all Jews, or that Haredi (a minority of this minority) can make up 10% of Jews, worldwide. 😕 It can’t be reconciled, but I don’t think those numbers are right. Here’s Elazar’s numbers: > **[How Strong is Orthodox Judaism -- Really? The Demographics of Jewish...](https://dje.jcpa.org/articles2/demographics.htm)** > > From the on-line library of the writings of Daniel J. Elazar ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/162 "2011-05-10T20:16:00Z")
That data is from 1991, and let’s not forget that Orthodox Jews scoff at some Modern Orthodox Jews. Even Aish is hesitant of other modox places. :rolleyes: Yeah, I’m fine with calling fundamentalist a fundamentalist, but I’m not sure exactly what a “fundamentalist” Jew is if Marely was just separating them on an idea that the world is 6000 years old. That puts one Haredi Jew in the fundie camp and the other in the…not…fundamentalist camp. **Cat Whisperer** , I don’t disagree that that shit is sexist. I just don’t like sensationalist news. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/163 "2011-05-10T20:19:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It can’t be reconciled, but I don’t think those numbers are right. Here’s Elazar’s numbers: > > [How Strong is Orthodox Judaism -- Really? The Demographics of Jewish Religious Identification](http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/demographics.htm) He’s talking about the strength of Orthodoxy - something that I’ve pointed out on here before, as well as a lot of other people - not people who _are_ Orthodox. Example: Kashrut. Orthodox comes into my life when I’m at the grocery store. Example 2: Schools. Many Orthodox outside of Israel No. 2 aka New York operate Jewish day schools that non-Orthodox send their kids to. Hm…universities, businesses, retreats and other things that are run by Orthodox organizations. Even something like _marriage_ well send two non-observant Jews to a bet din to make sure it’s all in check. Also: conversions and I don’t remember the Hebrew term but the uh, for lack of a better word, ‘certification’ of a Jew who wants to move to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/164 "2011-05-10T20:23:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It can’t be reconciled, but I don’t think those numbers are right. Here’s Elazar’s numbers: > > [How Strong is Orthodox Judaism -- Really? The Demographics of Jewish Religious Identification](http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/demographics.htm) I read his article. I have no idea what he’s basing his numbers on. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/165 "2011-05-10T20:36:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I know the KKK are racists. I didn’t know there was a sect of Judaism that was completely fucking insane; though I knew Orthodox Jews were a bit less enlightened vis-a-vis the role of women, I didn’t understand the scope of the problem. > > Hell, the relative lack of stupid dogma is one of my favorite things about Judaism. There are many different types of Orthodox Jews, and what they believe and (especially) how they act varies quite a lot. The subject is the newspaper produced by just one sect of Orthodox Jews If one learns nothing else from this thread, one can at least learn that. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/166 "2011-05-10T20:40:31Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The problem I have with it is not just the intellectual dishonesty in removing the women who were actually present in a historically significant picture, but the mentality behind this kind of sexist bullshit (which it is - no question about it). They can hide behind religion and weaselly ideas like female modesty, but it’s plain old-fashioned sexism - treating women worse than men for no other reason than they’re women. I never understood these kinds of modesty laws. Do folks like this actually believe that men are so weak that they can’t resist raping a woman if she even flashes an ankle, or is that all bullshit to justify treating women like second class humans? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/167 "2011-05-10T20:43:18Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I never understood these kinds of modesty laws. > > Do folks like this actually believe that men are so weak that they can’t resist raping a woman if she even flashes an ankle, or is that all bullshit to justify treating women like second class humans? if men were really that weak, they should be the ones with restrictions. I vote for the second reason. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/168 "2011-05-10T20:49:39Z")
According to this survey by an orthodox Jewish group, the Jewish Israeli pop. in the year 1999 self identified as follows: - Haredi (ultraorthodox): 5% - Religious: 12% - Traditional: 35% - Non-Religious: 43% - Anti-Religious: 5% [http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:3oI7Nz-gZrUJ:www.idi.org.il/sites/english/PublicationsCatalog/Documents/PortraitofIsraeliJewry.pdf+relationship+of+Israelis+with+Judaism+study+avichai&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiTNpb6AiU4-KM2TPBUCe4NzDVf8JXVsr9Jwdf5l40KysXeime5wuZt1LLevkK86e2fSPTlJcwBjCwffAPDNZR5aK20DN17MG01DwEJV5liR4HznH2Ns7OH\_NjjCkj-W17815In&sig=AHIEtbSqWqUzVaSScDfBshd3iRTktr7jCg](http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:3oI7Nz-gZrUJ:www.idi.org.il/sites/english/PublicationsCatalog/Documents/PortraitofIsraeliJewry.pdf+relationship+of+Israelis+with+Judaism+study+avichai&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiTNpb6AiU4-KM2TPBUCe4NzDVf8JXVsr9Jwdf5l40KysXeime5wuZt1LLevkK86e2fSPTlJcwBjCwffAPDNZR5aK20DN17MG01DwEJV5liR4HznH2Ns7OH_NjjCkj-W17815In&sig=AHIEtbSqWqUzVaSScDfBshd3iRTktr7jCg) In short, just as many Israeli Jews self-identified as “anti-religious” as identified as “Haredi” - 5%. They were vastly outnumbered by those who were “non-religious”: 43%. I dunno how this jibes with Daniel Elazar in 1991 identifying the Haredi population of Israel as 12% (and demographically growing faster than any other). In short, I doubt Mr. Elazar’s figures. They are not sourced and they are contradicted by stuff that is sourced. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/169 "2011-05-10T21:49:30Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > **Cat Whisperer** , I don’t disagree that that shit is sexist. I just don’t like sensationalist news. I, for one, look forward to your many future rigorous attacks on “sensationalist news” that does not involve Jews. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/170 "2011-05-10T22:12:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I know the KKK are racists. I didn’t know there was a sect of Judaism that was completely fucking insane; though I knew Orthodox Jews were a bit less enlightened vis-a-vis the role of women, I didn’t understand the scope of the problem. > > Hell, the relative lack of stupid dogma is one of my favorite things about Judaism. Yeah, these people are not the only [bigots](http://yfrog.com/gy2xyp) in town. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/171 "2011-05-11T02:15:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yeah, these people are not the only [bigots](http://yfrog.com/gy2xyp) in town. Fox News says “Why didn’t we think of that?” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/172 "2011-05-11T02:31:07Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > if men were really that weak, they should be the ones with restrictions. > I vote for the second reason. Yeah! Put some chastity belts on them that can only be opened by their clergy or something if they think they can’t control themselves around women just being women. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/173 "2011-05-11T02:45:46Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > if men were really that weak, they should be the ones with restrictions. A rapist was committing his crimes in Tel Aviv. Golda Meir’s cabinet wanted to put a curfew on women going out after dark. Meir told them, “It is a man committing the crime. We should put a curfew on men.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/174 "2011-05-11T03:11:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > … > The point of this pitting is, “This newspaper is run by a bunch of sexists!” The fact that they couch their sexism in appeals to their Judaism is neither relevant, nor exculpatory. I would have put it as “This ‘newspaper’ is run by a bunch of people that think altering photographs of news events is OK, in order to make them conform to their preferred, but false, version of reality.” I don’t care what their preferred version is, that’s their business. I only care that they think altering reality to fit it is an acceptable thing to do. Their “apology” didn’t cut it. “Back in the USSR, You don’t know how lucky you are…”, and all that rot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/175 "2011-05-11T03:30:40Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I would have put it as “This ‘newspaper’ is run by a bunch of people that think altering photographs of news events is OK, in order to make them conform to their preferred, but false, version of reality.” That works too. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/176 "2011-05-11T03:32:46Z")
On a lighter note: [http://madartlab.com/2011/05/10/hillary-clinton-erased-from-history-not-so-fast/](http://madartlab.com/2011/05/10/hillary-clinton-erased-from-history-not-so-fast/) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/177 "2011-05-11T14:23:38Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I never understood these kinds of modesty laws. > > Do folks like this actually believe that men are so weak that they can’t resist raping a woman if she even flashes an ankle, or is that all bullshit to justify treating women like second class humans? Now you’re confusing religions. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I, for one, look forward to your many future rigorous attacks on “sensationalist news” that does not involve Jews. You’re free to click on my name and read my posts. I raise an eyebrow at most OMFG! stories. Sorry if that doesn’t jive with your perception of decent reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/178 "2011-05-11T14:34:45Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Now you’re confusing religions. What makes you say that? Judaism doesn’t have insanity like revenge rape, but there is some sexism in there. Particularly in the more Orthodox traditions, since like I said earlier, hard core religious beliefs and sexism go hand in hand. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/179 "2011-05-11T19:27:37Z")
I want to point out that the blog post in the OP edited _Biden_ out of their version of the photo. What hypocrites! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255/180 "2011-05-11T19:39:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Fox News says “Why didn’t we think of that?” Too busy adding (D) after Osama bin Laden’s name, I daresay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hils-too-sexy-for-this-pic-sec-of-states-gonna-leave-me/581255.md?page=10)