Players who are described as blue collar are generally maximum-effort, mediocre talent guys… and they’re usually white.
I’d say you really aren’t getting it. I don’t know what else I can do, because it really seems like the concept of blue collar as applied outside of the SES meaning is quite foreign. Even FoieGras doesn’t claim that Ochocinco exemplifies blue collar. I mean, how could you even type “Ochocincho” and not get how he wouldn’t exemplify even the Merriam Webster definition I just gave you? The man legally changed his last name to a nickname based on his jersey number.
And maybe you aren’t familiar with Randy Moss or his history. You could at least do a quick wiki search before coming to argue that he’s dependable and not showy. Here, here’s the headings from the wiki page for Moss under “Controversy”
Marshall plane crash
Traffic incident
Leaving the field during a game
Playoff mooning incident
Marijuana use
Lack of effort
Dating violence allegations
Yeah, that’s a knock against him. I don’t like it when people hold out. I don’t know how that’s “showy” however. That’s contract negotiation nonsense, not mooning the crowd, pulling out a sharpie, “Givve me the damn ball” kind of nonsense. These concepts really do seem like they’re still out of your reach.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t pay a player a large salary. I said they wouldn’t pull something like bringing in a free agent at an outlandish salary. You did know that Albert Haynesworth was with the Titans before the Redskins gave him the huge contract, didn’t you? Do you know how the Steelers operate?
No. Just a familiarity with Holmes. First, I don’t buy that you’re that familiar with him at Ohio State. Secondly, being benched for having been arrested for marijuana possession is a fair sight worse than holding out in the pre-season. Also, he blew the Bengals game for us this year by not running the correct route. Finally, I don’t like his “that’s how you be great” posing after the Super Bowl winning catch, or the fact that he had to engage in a celebration that could have cost us 15 yards and the game. That’s just not blue collar at all, and it doesn’t take much in depth study of scouting reports to know all that.
The more posing, the more self-promotion, the more you change your last name to your jersey number, the further you get from exemplifying a blue collar ethic. The closer you are to the old adage of “acting like you’ve been there before” when you score a touchdown, the closer you are to the other end of the spectrum. This is basic stuff.
Porter did a lot of trash talking and trying to get in people’s heads. Other than his stomp thing, on the field he just played hard. I’d rather not have the stomp thing, but I’ll take the hard play and be fine with it. What other Porter nonsense did you have in mind?
And how are they relevant to the issue of Hines Ward and whether he could be lauded for a blue collar work ethic? The Steelers were against Ben not wearing a helmet. They were also, I would assume, against him almost dying in a motorcycle accident. What’s your point in bringing that up?
Also, Ben apparently had sex with a woman in a hotel room in Colorado. I’m sure that there’s no bonus built into his contract for that, but what problem do you have with that. He’s not married.
Well, obviously Ward isn’t white, so there’s one of your criteria down. I consider blue collar to be get the job done without a lot of fuss and be tough. Mediocre doesn’t really enter into it. Otherwise, how could teams like the Steelers and the Ravens be typically considered representative of “blue collar”?
If all you have is a personal attack, why don’t you take it to the pit. I’ll be happy to meet you there. Otherwise, you’ve taken a step back from your usual level of football post - you don’t even mention James Harrison in that one.
Making the playoffs a lot and not winning Super Bowls very much, I guess. Oh, and because that “blue collar” stuff is bullshit. The Steelers have a bunch of showoffs just like every other team.
You already mentioned Holmes. James Harrison has a sack dance that’s twice as stupid as Jerry Porter’s combination kick/Captain Morgan pose. Burress was a diva before he was drafted and for some reason people were surprised that he remained one. Roethlisberger is hardly a shrinking violet. Troy Polamalu seems to be endorsing products more often than he’s tackling someone nowadays.
Same thing with the Ravens. Ray Lewis is the heart and soul of that team and he lives to show people up and perform his (kinda cool, admittedly) seizure dance thing. Ed Reed is constantly waving the ball around on interception returns. Terrell Suggs and Bart Scott are mouthy “celebrate every tackle on which the opponent gains <5 yards” guys too.
There are “blue collar” players. There are no blue collar teams. It’s a myth.
This is just stupid. Porter’s nonsense isn’t any different from Ochocinco’s nonsense - do you think Ochocinco’s not trying to get into his opponents’ heads? Ochocinco also plays just as hard as Porter ever did. The only difference is the color uniform they wear.
Dude, I told you that I didn’t get it. I said that no football player is blue collar, because they’re all make at least six figures, and often seven (sometimes eight!) Those closest “blue collar” players I could think of would be Kurt Warner, bagging groceries, and Michael Lewis driving that beer truck… but even they traded in their blue collars once they started making six+ figures.
But you showed me a definition I was honestly unfamiliar with. The only problem is that it does nothing to help me understand why Ward is blue collar (definition 2) but Holmes, Ochocinco, Moss, etc. are not. They’re all dependable, they all work hard, I honestly don’t know who is or isn’t “unpretentious” or “unsophisticated,” but I doubt you do either (unless you hang out with professional football players on a regular basis).
In short, “I do not think that word means what you think it means.” If you want to like Hines Ward because he doesn’t show off*, fine, but that does not a blue collar make.
- And, if I took the time, I bet I could find some YouTube clips of him showing off. Meh.
Of course it’s showy! It’s the epitome of “Me me me!” Now, I’m not one of those guys who thinks that management is always the aggrieved party in a labor dispute, but at the same time, I would think demanding more money would be the sort of prima donna move that would get one irrevocably stripped of this enigmatic “blue collar” label. Guess not, if he plays in Stiller town.
No, that’s not what you said at all. What you ACTUALLY said was:
You’ll note the utter absence of the words “free agent” in your quote, and the presence of the figure $100 million. Forgive me for responding to what you actually posted instead of what you meant to post.
Wait – are you calling me a liar or what? Please clarify.
Who said it wasn’t? Alls I said is, based on my personal, non-lying experience, I haven’t seen that Holmes has a poor work ethic. You say that he does. In Columbus (you know, the place where I saw Holmes play, like, live and in person many times) we have an expression called “put up or shut up.” Care to play?
And that makes someone forfeit their blue collardom? Because I don’t see shit in your definition about flawless play.
So… other than his incessant trash talking, and other than his silly little dances, he was blue collar? For Christ’s sake man, move the goalposts a little farther why don’t you!
Because you said the Steelers writ large are also a blue collar team. Try to keep up.
I’ll withdraw my digs at Rothlesberger as irrelevant. As a similar gesture of good faith, why don’t you post some stuff to support your multiple assertions about the relative work ethics of Holmes, Ward, and Welker. Throw in Ochocinco for extra credit.
Blue-collar is a misnomer like referring to a team as having a “finesse” defense. Hines Ward is regarded as a blue collar player because he blocks so willingly and plays hard on plays where other receivers might take the play off. I agree with RNATB’s description of the as maximum-effort, mediocre, often white guys but a guy like Adrian Peterson seems blue collar when he comes back in bounds to cream a safety. Jerome Bettis came across as a blue collar type player. It’s like porn. I can’t define it but…you know the rest.
Certainly none of these guys is living on a blue collar salary but I think some guys probably need to spend more time than others in the ice bath recovering from a game and the background you come from means more to a person’s persona than how much they make now if they maintain that type of work ethic. If it were just one millionaire vs. another we’d be watching polo. Some guys are clearly driven by more than money.
Incidentally, one of the characteristics that disqualifies a guy from being a blue collar player in my book is one who plays big in contract years and then coasts on long-term contracts. We’ve all seen them. I recognize blue collar players mostly in contrast to that type of ethic.
Jesus, you Steeler fans are touchy little whiners, aren’t you? A little bit of smack talking and you get your little panties (although to be honest I’ve never met a female Steeler fan who weighs less than 250, so the panties probably don’t qualify as “little”) all in a bunch.
I had no idea you would react with a fit of the vapors to go with your delusions. For that, I apologize.
I’m a Ravens fans, with no love at all for the Steelers.
Still, i originally came in to defend Ward, because i’ve never really seen him as a dirty player. I’ve even said before that i like his in-your-face, laughing attitude, while also finding it infuriating when Baltimore plays the Steelers.
But i had never seen that Daven Holly hit before. That was the cheapest of cheap shots, a bullshit play that, IMO, is the sort of unexpected late hit that should draw a hefty fine and a hefty suspension.
For me, the jury is still out on whether that play is enough to convict Ward as a dirty player, but it was certainly a dirty play.
This is getting really close to the crux of the matter. Although there are of course “blue-collar” players that will never sniff the kind of money that ultra-talented players “that play blue collar” get in their careers.
[Nelson Muntz]
HA-HA!
[/end Nelson Muntz]
Would that include Hines Ward, what with his holdout and all?
Why not? He didn’t stop playing hard after geting a deal. I like my job but if they offer to pay me less I’ll head elsewhere. I don’t guys to play for free. I expect them to play hard for their money.
No, but didn’t he, by definition, stop playing/training entirely during his holdout?* How is that “playing hard” for his money? The vast majority of players in the NFL make a contract and honor it, but a small minority decide not to do so. Ward is in that small minority.
[sub]* OK, he probably still worked out during his holdout. But that was him working out by himself, for himself, not as a Steeler with the Steelers.[/sub]
He still works for his money. He’s probably not working out right now either. As long as he delivers during the games he’s earning his pay. If you got paid for making highlight catches in practice Limas Sweed would be a pro-bowler. Hines Ward delivers on the field during the game where it counts.
Did you even read the article? As many as 90% do not agree.
Nice try, though.
Wait, what? By this logic, Michael Crabtree has worked for his money all year long for the Niners. In reality, he wasn’t working for his money during the first few weeks of this season, just like Ward wasn’t back in 2005 or whenever.
Are you daft? The guy missed one preseason out of what? 13? And then was a Super Bowl MVP. If you’re argument is that he wasn’t earning his money during the holdout it doesn’t make sense since he never was paid for the weeks he held out. This is a lot of nonsensical arguing for an illusory title. Even Hines Wards’ detractors consider him a blue collar player, just a dirty one.
Want to take another run at this sentence? Even ignoring you’re/your confusion, it makes absolutely zero sense.
That may very well be, but I’m just trying to figure out the “je ne sais quoi” that Hines Ward has that makes him blue collar but is lacking in hard-working Santonio Holmes, dependable Randy Moss (in a pass-catching sense, not in a good person sense), and somehow shared by showboating, big-mouthed Joey Porter. Ya dig?
But the ones that voted…did?