# Hiring a writer for a screenplay: how much does it cost and how to find a writer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199 "2010-08-13T23:04:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/41 "2010-08-14T23:35:37Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > [aside] > I will say this about the execution-versus-idea issue: Yes, execution matters a whole lot, and Hollywood producers have gotten extremely good at it. They can get the top-rated actors, best CGI, best stuntmen, hundreds millions of dollars for financing, etc, so they can make just about any movie they want and make it look good. However, a lot of the stories, character development, and dialog are crap. I guess they still know what they’re doing, since they still make millions at the box office, but they may not be doing as well as they could be (I think movie going is down, in real dollar terms, but don’t have a cite). > > When I come out of some of the blockbuster summer movies I often wonder “If they can put $200 million towards making this movie, why can’t they set aside a decent chunk of that and put it on a screenplay that doesn’t suck?”. Some may answer that they don’t need a screenplay that doesn’t suck, and they know the optimal way to spend their $200 million to maximize their box office take. However, I think that another possibility is that they have gotten so good at the execution, they can make such dazzling movies these days (from a visual/technical point of view) that they simply go ahead and make a movie even if they don’t have the greatest storyline to base it on. > > It’s like someone who has an amazing factory that can make any gadget they want, but they simply can’t come up with enough ideas for amazing gadgets to produce a new one each month, so they go ahead and use their factory to make useless gadgets since they know their gadgets are so dazzling that people will buy them anyway. > > The making of movies has become such a colossal enterprise that there are only a few entities which can execute well in this space. So the execution is focused in a small number of entities/companies, and I think this poses a problem, since there is not as much diversity in the types of stories being told, or even the way they are told. > > (Artsy, independent films, of course are not covered by the above. The above refers to big mainstream movies) > > [/aside] Everything you say has truth to it, but when we say “execution” we are also including the “translating an idea to a screenplay,” not just the filming/distribution of the screenplay. On your analogy, once again, the crappy products are coming out of the high tech factory not because product planners are too stupid to know that a rollable computer screen or hoverboard or sexbot would sell like hotcakes, but because they don’t have the engineering chops to make those concepts work as a product that they can manufacture in that factory and sell at a reasonable price. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/42 "2010-08-15T00:01:24Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > [aside] > I will say this about the execution-versus-idea issue: Yes, execution matters a whole lot, and Hollywood producers have gotten extremely good at it. They can get the top-rated actors, best CGI, best stuntmen, hundreds millions of dollars for financing, etc, so they can make just about any movie they want and make it look good. However, a lot of the stories, character development, and dialog are crap. I guess they still know what they’re doing, since they still make millions at the box office, but they may not be doing as well as they could be (I think movie going is down, in real dollar terms, but don’t have a cite). > > When I come out of some of the blockbuster summer movies I often wonder “If they can put $200 million towards making this movie, why can’t they set aside a decent chunk of that and put it on a screenplay that doesn’t suck?”. Some may answer that they don’t need a screenplay that doesn’t suck, and they know the optimal way to spend their $200 million to maximize their box office take. However, I think that another possibility is that they have gotten so good at the execution, they can make such dazzling movies these days (from a visual/technical point of view) that they simply go ahead and make a movie even if they don’t have the greatest storyline to base it on. > > It’s like someone who has an amazing factory that can make any gadget they want, but they simply can’t come up with enough ideas for amazing gadgets to produce a new one each month, so they go ahead and use their factory to make useless gadgets since they know their gadgets are so dazzling that people will buy them anyway. > > The making of movies has become such a colossal enterprise that there are only a few entities which can execute well in this space. So the execution is focused in a small number of entities/companies, and I think this poses a problem, since there is not as much diversity in the types of stories being told, or even the way they are told. > > (Artsy, independent films, of course are not covered by the above. The above refers to big mainstream movies) > > [/aside] I was trying to stay out of this area as it is a hijack of the OP, but since you brought it up yourself… Movies are expensive to make. As you mentioned $200 million dollars expensive. The people who put up that kind of money aren’t looking to make art, they are looking for a return on their investment. Trends and focus groups show that most Americans wouldn’t know art if it lovingly sucked their cocks. They are marketing to the lowest common (paying) denominator. It works, check out a Happy Meal. Movies are not art, they are business. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/43 "2010-08-15T00:07:25Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > It’s becoming clear that the prices for professional writers are much higher than I had thought, and are higher than what I’m willing to pay, for “just an idea”. I may not proceed with this, but if I do, it looks like I will have to find a student or an amateur. Hee hee hee! Welcome to the Heartless Exploiters’ Club! The dues are a little steep, but I think you’ll enjiy the stylish crested blazers! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/44 "2010-08-15T00:15:43Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > When I come out of some of the blockbuster summer movies I often wonder “If they can put $200 million towards making this movie, why can’t they set aside a decent chunk of that and put it on a screenplay that doesn’t suck?”. Some may answer that they don’t need a screenplay that doesn’t suck, and they know the optimal way to spend their $200 million to maximize their box office take. However, I think that another possibility is that they have gotten so good at the execution, they can make such dazzling movies these days (from a visual/technical point of view) that they simply go ahead and make a movie even if they don’t have the greatest storyline to base it on. I am not “in the business”, but everything I’ve ever read about screenwriting (and I have done a lot of reading on this subject) indicates that what you see onscreen can bear little resemblance to the screenplay that was actually sold. A lot of problems in movies that get blamed on the “bad script” were actually the result of changes made to the original script. In other words, it may very well be the case that plenty of money was spent on a fabulous screenplay, and that the suckiness was introduced at a later stage in the moviemaking process. Once a script is sold, the screenwriter loses control of the project. The studio can do whatever they want with it. IIRC if the studio wants a rewrite then the original writer has the right to have the first crack at it, but after that it can be totally rewritten by someone else…sometimes again and again. The director and in some cases even the stars also have the ability to make substantial changes to the story and dialogue. For more about how a good screenplay can become a bad movie and why it’s foolish to assume you can determine the quality of the script from watching the finished movie, see [this Wordplay column](http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp06.Crap-plus-One.html). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/45 "2010-08-15T00:26:31Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > > [@Polerius](#): > > > > (Also, I thought there may be some online forums or websites where professional and/or amateur screenwriters hang out and people go there to find someone to write their script. Are there such places online?) > > Now that you’ve heard from the stone-throwers, here’s the other side. Many here have rightly suggested that ideas are over-rated - it’s true. But the idea that talented screenwriters won’t write for you because they have good ideas too is malarky. Screenwriting is their jobs and they strive to get paid for doing it. Almost all first time screenwriters who sell their work go straight to writing others ideas. In fact many spec scripts are written as a way to get their foot in the door. 99% of screenwriters in Hollywood don’t write spec scripts, they write to get paid. > > I had an idea for a screenplay. I went to seminars , read every book I could get my hands on and wrote, wrote wrote. I listened to podcasts and networked with other hopefuls on forums, etc. Finally I got my foot in the door and had my project optioned with Palm (for a measley $500, they didn’t renew and no one else was interested). It’s very hard work, but doable. My in finally came (from all places) [IMDB Board: Shop Talk Writers](http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000019/threads/). There is a guy that posts there that has sold several scripts and even had a minor but speaking part in Fincher’s Zodiak. I haven’t hung out there in years but I just checked and he is still posting there. PM me if you are interested as I don’t want to identify him here. He’s a very knowledgeable and straight forward guy. > > Lots of luck on your project. Congratulations on your perseverance. But unless I’m misreading, what you are saying here is the precise opposite of what Polerius wants to do. Real writers do the hard work. They study, strive, network, and “write, write, write.” That’s not unique: that’s the norm. It’s also true that many screenplays are written as a job. It’s hard to believe that Guillermo del Toro has been waiting his entire life to make a movie based on Disney’s Haunted Mansion ride. Neither remotely applies to Polerius. He doesn’t want to write, write, write. He wants someone else to. He’s not a producer with a guaranteed buyer for a $200 million movie. He’s not a director who wants to film his vision. He’s not a screenwriter who has characters that are begging to be filmed. It doesn’t even sound like he’s a pornographer who wants someone to write up a script so he can film his girlfriend nude. (Yes, many movies were made for this reason.) He doesn’t fit into any of the categories by which real movies are made. As for Polerius’ aside: every writer in the galaxy has been saying exactly that for decades. Big whoop. Whatever your plan is won’t change the reality of Hollywood any more than it will add a new head to Mt. Rushmore. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/46 "2010-08-15T00:38:28Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I can think of three off the top of my head: > > John Scalzi and Cory Doctorow first began “publishing” their books by putting them on a website and setting up a “tip jar” link. Both attracted the notice of real publishers and are now highly respected (and bestselling) authors. > > Scott Sigler released his fiction as free podcasts (dubbed “podiobooks”) a chapter at a time through his website and iTunes. He gained a massive following and he too earned a publishing deal with a real publisher. Sorry, I meant to address this. Cory Doctorow. Not true, I believe. He released his first novel online simultaneously with its publication by Tor. He was already a full-time writer, though. John Scalzi. True. Again, he was a full-time nonfiction writer for a decade before doing this. Scott Sigler. True. Except, of course, for the decade he spent publishing novels before his breakthrough online. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/47 "2010-08-15T00:46:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > John Scalzi and Cory Doctorow first began “publishing” their books by putting them on a website and setting up a “tip jar” link. Both attracted the notice of real publishers and are now highly respected (and bestselling) authors. > > Scott Sigler released his fiction as free podcasts (dubbed “podiobooks”) a chapter at a time through his website and iTunes. He gained a massive following and he too earned a publishing deal with a real publisher. > Sorry, I meant to address this. > > Cory Doctorow. Not true, I believe. He released his first novel online simultaneously with its publication by Tor. He was already a full-time writer, though. > > John Scalzi. True. Again, he was a full-time nonfiction writer for a decade before doing this. > > Scott Sigler. True. Except, of course, for the decade he spent publishing novels before his breakthrough online. What are our rules? What do we do with guys who had popular blogs/websites (Fark, Real Ultimate Power, Four Hour Workweek (??)) first and then got book deals? That seems to be a not-super-rare route (though the “books” are often just lame-o rehashes/compilations of the web postings). Or are we only talking straight self-published fiction? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/48 "2010-08-15T00:52:25Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Once a script is sold, the screenwriter loses control of the project. The studio can do whatever they want with it. IIRC if the studio wants a rewrite then the original writer has the right to have the first crack at it, but after that it can be totally rewritten by someone else…sometimes again and again. The director and in some cases even the stars also have the ability to make substantial changes to the story and dialogue. Sometimes watching a bad movie you can glimpse fragments of the original script – little bits of dialog that suggest character motivations that no longer exist, story arcs that imply the existence of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor, odd discontinuities that would make sense if you jiggered things around a little. One of the games that my family plays after we go to a movie is trying to reconstruct the bad decisions were made on the fly during production. How was the story originally supposed to work before it got mucked up by the director … ? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/49 "2010-08-15T01:00:13Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > What are our rules? What do we do with guys who had popular blogs/websites (Fark, Real Ultimate Power, Four Hour Workweek (??)) first and then got book deals? That seems to be a not-super-rare route (though the “books” are often just lame-o rehashes/compilations of the web postings). > > Or are we only talking straight self-published fiction? Rules? We don’t need no stinkin’ rules! I completely agree that people have gotten attention from online publishing and made deal with major mainstream publishers. That covers a lot of ground, from e-books to blogs. I just wanted to make the point that many of the examples that get pointed to are really from experienced writers trying to leverage their expertise. That’s perfectly honorable and smart. It’s not quite the same as somebody who sticks their writing up online and gets noticed the first time out, which many people seem to believe is the case. There are some of those but they are far rarer. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/50 "2010-08-15T01:10:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Congratulations on your perseverance. But unless I’m misreading, what you are saying here is the precise opposite of what Polerius wants to do. Sorry if my point was lost. I’m jaded from having this discussion too many times and I take responsibility for my jumbled meaning. It seems from the OP he recognizes the futility of the exercise but wishes to pursue it anyway: _“I do have an idea for a screenplay, and I know that the chance that it will ever get made into anything are essentially zero, but if the price is not too high (say, $10,000 or less), I would like to see my idea turn into a screenplay.”_ Which was met with: Originally Posted by\*\* Huerta88\*\*: _People systemically overestimate the value of “ideas.” It’s all in the execution._ Originally Posted by **astro** : _“I have an idea for” is maybe 1% of the work of really fleshing out a story or a dramatic character."_ Originally Posted by **Peter Morris** : “_Ideas are ten a penny. The hard part is writing them._” Originally Posted by\*\* Estilicon\*\*: "_First of all, ideas are worthless"_ I was trying to point out that even if your idea is second to an actual script, that doesn’t mean that you can’t get a decent writer to put it into 120 pages of professional material just because that writer might have good ideas of his own. My second point was that an outsider (as I was) can get their foot in the door if they network enough. If the OP pays for someone to produce a sellable script and he is willing to work hard and smart enough he has a shot at getting it read. It’s not as hard as you might think if you are creative. For a script to get read by a big wig it must first get past “the help”. I got past that step by step by befriending Pamela Wallace who I met at a seminar. Rather than talk about ‘the biz’ I asked her if she knew the best place to eat while visiting Monterey, she in turn introduced me to a low level reader. It’s a loooong shot sure, but doable. I know because I’ve done it. My only regret is that I’m not a better writer so I could have capitalized on it. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/51 "2010-08-15T01:33:22Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > It’s a loooong shot sure, but doable. I know because I’ve done it. My only regret is that I’m not a better writer so I could have capitalized on it. Well, most of us probably just wish for the OP that (s)he have the confidence and commitment do it him/herself, as you did. Your dedication and sincerity and effort and commitment to your story are likely a huge part of what got your foot in the door. I just have to think the same message/passion/excitement is not going to come through if the approach is – give me one chance, I had an idea that was so important to me that I . . . hired someone else to do the detail work. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/52 "2010-08-15T09:36:24Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > What are our rules? What do we do with guys who had popular blogs/websites (Fark, Real Ultimate Power, Four Hour Workweek (??)) first and then got book deals? That seems to be a not-super-rare route (though the “books” are often just lame-o rehashes/compilations of the web postings). > > Or are we only talking straight self-published fiction? I was doing straight published fiction. Yes, Doctorow’s books were published as books in addition to the eBooks, but I believe it was the eBooks that fuelled his popularity until **Little Brother**. Scalzi had no published fiction until putting **Old Man’s War** on his website made him a huge sci-fi star. And Sigler’s first fiction book, **Earthcore** , was published as an eBook before he hit it big with his podcast novels. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/53 "2010-08-15T15:53:25Z")
I admit I’m not familar with these, but here’s what Wikipedia lists: > [@](#): > > Books in print > Scott Sigler, Phil Masters, Dean Edgell, Dana Edgell (1991) Champions Presents #1 ISBN 1-55806-123-1 Hero Games > Scott Sigler (1998) Asp Technocracy (Silent Death, the Next Millennium) Iron Crown Enterprises > Scott Sigler (1993) Shadows of the City ISBN 1-55806-181-9 > Scott Sigler (1997) Silent Death House Sigurd Archdiocese ISBN 1-55806-295-5 Iron Crown Enterprises > Scott Sigler, Don Dennis (1997) Sigurd Archdiocese: Forces Book ISBN 1-55806-295-5 They appear to be gaming adventures, but that doesn’t mean they don’t count as books. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/54 "2010-08-15T15:59:24Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Well, most of us probably just wish for the OP that (s)he have the confidence and commitment do it him/herself, as you did. Your dedication and sincerity and effort and commitment to your story are likely a huge part of what got your foot in the door. I just have to think the same message/passion/excitement is not going to come through if the approach is – give me one chance, I had an idea that was so important to me that I . . . hired someone else to do the detail work. This is BS. First, I never said that “I had an idea that was so important to me…”. I’m not consumed by it. I have a job and a good income. I’m not waiting on tables, diligently working on this idea and waiting and hoping for it to make me some money. The fact of the matter is that I just happen to be mulling an idea for a movie in my head for a few years now, and I thought it would be cool to see it on paper. That is all. Second, I don’t see why I need to “have the confidence and commitment do it myself” and I don’t see why doing it myself would show “dedication and sincerity”. If I thought that a painting with two galloping horses in a meadow would look great in my living room, why would the preferred route be to take some art lessons, learn how to paint, and paint it myself? Why would it be a lesser painting if I found an art student, and paid him to paint it for me, after we went through some sketches and I explained to him what I want? The art student would actually likely do a better job than me, even if I took some art lessons. Same with the screenplay. Why would it be a lesser screenplay if I just found a screenwriting student or amateur screenwriter and paid him to write it for me, after we go through a lot of discussions and I explain to him what I want? The screenwriting student or amateur screenwriter would actually likely do a better job than me, even if I took some screenwriting lessons and worked on my script for a long long time. Just because some people feel the all-consuming need to put their story on paper themselves, and so learn how to write and spend a lot of time and effort writing it themselves, that doesn’t mean that that should be the only route. You guys have one thing right: A script from someone outside the industry has a snowball’s chance in hell to ever amount to anything. I know that. But that’s about the only thing you got right. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/55 "2010-08-15T16:02:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They appear to be gaming adventures, but that doesn’t mean they don’t count as books. It does when you’re talking about fiction versus non-fiction. Before **Earthcore** , Sigler wrote a computer help manual and four rulebooks for tabletop RPGs. Those aren’t fiction of any kind. When you’re talking about getting your start in fiction, those really don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/56 "2010-08-15T16:36:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > They appear to be gaming adventures, but that doesn’t mean they don’t count as books. > > It does when you’re talking about fiction versus non-fiction. Before **Earthcore** , Sigler wrote a computer help manual and four rulebooks for tabletop RPGs. Those aren’t fiction of any kind. > > When you’re talking about getting your start in fiction, those really don’t count. OK. That still fits exactly into my experienced writer leveraging a new form scenario. Basically he and John Scalzi went the same route. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/57 "2010-08-15T16:40:57Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > The fact of the matter is that I just happen to be mulling an idea for a movie in my head for a few years now, and I thought it would be cool to see it on paper. That is all. I think part of the problem is that you have said both that you just want to see your idea on paper and that you might be interested in actually getting this script turned into a movie. These are two very different things. Setting aside the difficulties of actually selling a script in Hollywood, it sounds like you would want to have legal control of the document. First of all, I’m not certain this is even possible. There is a provision in US copyright law regarding “work for hire”, where the copyright belongs to the person who commissioned the work rather than the person who actually created it, but this is limited to certain types of work. It’s not clear to me that a screenplay would qualify. If it does, then the writer would have to sign a contract saying that you would be considered the legal author of the work and would hold the copyright. Some writers would be willing to do this, but I suspect that many would not as a matter of principle. If you commissioned a painting for your bedroom then you’d own the physical object but the original artist would still hold the copyright. You wouldn’t have the legal right to turn the image into a line of greeting cards or something. If you wanted to commission a writer on similar terms then s/he would just give you a copy of the finished screenplay but you would not be able to publish it or sell the rights to a studio. The writer could attempt to sell the script to Hollywood if s/he wanted to, but you’d have no say in the matter either way. I think you’d be a lot more likely to find a writer willing to work with you on those terms. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/58 "2010-08-15T16:41:07Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > You guys have one thing right: A script from someone outside the industry has a snowball’s chance in hell to ever amount to anything. I know that. > > But that’s about the only thing you got right. Yeah, that opens my eyes. All of us are wrong, and you are correct. You are much cleverer than we are, and don’t need our advice. Guys, I think we should all stop even trying to advise him. Our puny intellects are obviously no match for him. Let’s all just bow to his superior wisdom, and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/59 "2010-08-15T16:52:53Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > First of all, I’m not certain this is even possible. There is a provision in US copyright law regarding “work for hire”, where the copyright belongs to the person who commissioned the work rather than the person who actually created it, but this is limited to certain types of work. It’s not clear to me that a screenplay would qualify. If it does, then the writer would have to sign a contract saying that you would be considered the legal author of the work and would hold the copyright. Some writers would be willing to do this, but I suspect that many would not as a matter of principle. The standard practice in Hollywood is that the production company owns the screenplay (or teleplay). Anyone familiar enough with the industry to be capable of writing a screenplay would know this and have no expectation of retaining copyright. Here’s something from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire) which looks right to me: > [@](#): > > if the work is created by an independent contractor or freelancer, the work may be considered a work for hire only if all of the following conditions are met: > > the work must come within one of the nine limited categories of works listed in the definition above, namely (1) a contribution to a collective work, (2) a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, (3) a translation, (4) a supplementary work, (5) a compilation, (6) an instructional text, (7) a test, (8) answer material for a test, (9) an atlas; > > the work must be specially ordered or commissioned; > > there must be a written agreement between the parties specifying that the work is a work made for hire. [3] > > 1. US Copyright Office, Circular 9: Work-Made-For-Hire Under the 1976 Copyright Act. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199/60 "2010-08-15T17:55:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The standard practice in Hollywood is that the production company owns the screenplay (or teleplay). Anyone familiar enough with the industry to be capable of writing a screenplay would know this and have no expectation of retaining copyright. But **Polerius** isn’t a production company, and wouldn’t be paying anywhere near what a screenwriter would expect to get from a Hollywood production company. It’s one thing to sell a screenplay for lots of money to someone with the ability to turn it into a movie. It’s another thing to sell one for a much smaller amount of money to a middleman who will then attempt to sell it to Hollywood for a lot more money. The odds are against this attempt being successful, but either way the writer is better off with the fee from **Polerius** AND the copyright to the work than s/he would be with the fee and no legal right to the work. If the final screenplay is good then even if Hollywood isn’t interested the writer might want to turn it into a novel or something, and if it’s bad then the writer would probably prefer that it not be shown around too much. There are probably writers who’d be willing to sign away their rights for the amount of money **Polerius** is offering, but there must be even more who’d be willing to take on the project if they got to keep the copyright. It’s unclear to me whether a screenplay counts as “part of a motion picture” if you’re writing it for someone with no connections to the movie industry and who isn’t going to attempt to shoot it independently, so I’m not certain it’s even legal for **Polerius** to ask a writer to do the project on a work for hire basis. So if he wanted to go that route he’d probably need to check with a lawyer about it, and would definitely need someone to draw up a work for hire contract. If he were fine with allowing the writer to keep the copyright then this wouldn’t be necessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiring-a-writer-for-a-screenplay-how-much-does-it-cost-and-how-to-find-a-writer/550199.md?page=4)