# Hirohito is not a War Criminal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119 "2006-01-02T21:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/1 "2006-01-02T21:40:05Z")
The Allies successfully convicted dozens of German war criminals after WWII because… well… they were criminals. When some of them claimed they were just following orders, nobody believed them. German society didn’t fall apart any more than it already had. Mussolini was hung in the streets, and Italy somehow survived. So how, as Tony Soprano might have said, did the Emperor of Japan get a pass? The Allies were apparently concerned about “the continuity of Japanese Society”. The Emperor was certainly aware of what had gone on… and he was certainly in a position to stop it if he had wanted to. He couldn’t claim he was just “following orders”. So how did he get off? Who’s idea was that? What would have happened in Japan if the Emperor was locked up for the rest of his life? It just doesn’t make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/2 "2006-01-02T22:01:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The Allies were apparently concerned about “the continuity of Japanese Society”. The Emperor was certainly aware of what had gone on… and he was certainly in a position to stop it if he had wanted to. He couldn’t claim he was just “following orders”. > > So how did he get off? Who’s idea was that? What would have happened in Japan if the Emperor was locked up for the rest of his life? It just doesn’t make sense to me. The claim at the time was that the Emperor did _not_ know what was going on, and was basically a figurehead, as he had been during the time of the Tokugawa shoguns. I’m not sure if everyone really believed this, but it certainly gave them an excuse to keep Hirohito in place and to assure a relatively tranquil transition in Japan. Although the surrender was unconditional, I suspect things would’ve gone very hard if they tyried to remove the Emperor altogether. From time to time some writes a book in which they claim to show that Hirohito was anything but a puppet. When was in high school I struggled through david Bergamini’s **Japan’s Imperial Copnspiracy** , which presented precisely that case, using a surprising array of inside documents to back it up. There have been others since. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/3 "2006-01-02T22:03:00Z")
It was MacArthur’s idea that he be spared prosecution, but with one condition: that he publicly renounce his Divine status (the Emperor was believed to be a descendent of one of the Gods). The reason was so that there would be continuity in at least one aspect of Japanese society. In addition, nobody is entirely sure how complicit he was in the decision making, and since they had Tojo and the rest he was given a pass. I really don’t have any problem with that. He lost most, if not all, of his power, his Divine status, and he became nothing more than a figurehead. To my way of thinking, that’s punishment enough. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/4 "2006-01-02T22:16:54Z")
Hirohito was an active political figure before and during the war but was reduced to a figurehead role in post-war Japan. It suited American and Japanese interests to pretend that he had been a figurehead all along. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/5 "2006-01-02T23:52:49Z")
Thanks everyone. I’m not sure how giving Hirohito a pass particularly suited our interests, but I guess not having to deal with millions of really pissed-off Japanese citizens made things less complicated for us. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/6 "2006-01-03T00:43:58Z")
FWIW, I read in _Modern Times,_ by Paul Johnson ([http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060935502/qid=1136248565/sr=2-1/ref=pd\_bbs\_b\_2\_1/002-3755004-5176838?s=books&v=glance&n=283155](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060935502/qid=1136248565/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3755004-5176838?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)), that the form of government at the time effectively precluded the emperor from playing any active role in policy decisions. He theoretically presided over Cabinet meetings – that is, he sat at an elevated table at the head of the room – but protocol forbade any direct verbal communications between him and his ministers; questions to the throne had to be submitted in writing, and replies issued the same way. Protocol was so cumbersome, in fact, even WRT to the ministers and military officers communicating with each other, that it was often almost impossible to say, after a meeting, exactly what decisions had been arrived at; which in effect left the generals and admirals free to do what **they** understood had been decided. Johnson blames the Japanese government’s worst blunders on its procedure of making (assumed) policy by (implicit, unspoken) consensus. According to the Wikipedia article – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito#World\_War\_II:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito#World_War_II:) > [@](#): > > On September 4, 1941, the Japanese Cabinet met to consider the war plans prepared by Imperial General Headquarters, and decided that: > Our Empire, for the purpose of self-defence and self-preservation, will complete preparations for war … [and is] … resolved to go to war with the United States, Great Britain and the Netherlands if necessary. Our Empire will concurrently take all possible diplomatic measures vis-a-vis the United States and Great Britain, and thereby endeavor to obtain our objectives … In the event that there is no prospect of our demands being met by the first ten days of October through the diplomatic negotiations mentioned above, we will immediately decide to commence hostilities against the United States, Britain and the Netherlands. > The “objectives” to be obtained were clearly defined: a free hand to continue with the conquest of China and Southeast Asia, no increase in US or British military forces in the region, and cooperation by the West “in the acquisition of goods needed by our Empire”. > > On September 5, Prime Minister Konoe informally submitted a draft of the decision to the Emperor, just one day in advance of the Imperial Conference at which it would be formally implemented. According to the traditional view (again, contradicted by Bix’s research), Hirohito was deeply concerned by the decision to place “war preparations first and diplomatic negotiations second” and announced his intention to break with centuries-old protocol and, at the Imperial Conference on the following day, directly question the chiefs of the Army and Navy general staffs — a quite unprecedented action. Konoe quickly persuaded Hirohito to summon them for a private conference instead, at which the Emperor made it plain that a peaceful settlement was to be pursued “up to the last”. Chief of Naval General Staff Admiral Osami Nagano, a former Navy Minister and vastly experienced, later told a trusted colleague “I have never seen the Emperor reprimand us in such a manner, his face turning red and raising his voice.” > > Nevertheless, all speakers at the Imperial Conference were united in favour of war rather than diplomacy. Baron Yoshimichi Hara, President of the Imperial Council and the Emperor’s representative, then questioned them closely, producing replies to the effect that war would only be considered as a last resort from some, and silence from others. > > At this point, the sovereign astonished all present by addressing the conference personally, and in breaking the tradition of Imperial silence left his advisors “struck with awe”. (Prime Minister Konoe’s description of the event.) Emperor Hirohito stressed the need for peaceful resolution of international problems, expressed regret at his ministers’ failure to respond to Baron Hara’s probings, and recited a poem written by his grandfather, Emperor Meiji which, he said, he had read “over and over again”: > > Methinks all the people of the world are brethren, then. > Why are the waves and the wind so unsettled nowadays? > > Recovering from their shock, the ministers hastened to express their profound wish to explore all possible peaceful avenues. The war preparations continued without the slightest change, however, and within weeks Cabinet would replace the insufficiently belligerent Konoe with the hard line General Hideki Tojo, formally chosen by Hirohito under the Constitution (but whether he was in fact favored by Hirohito remains disputed). On December 8 (December 7 in Hawaii) 1941, in simultaneous attacks, Japanese forces struck at the US Fleet in Pearl Harbor and began the invasion of South-East Asia. From here, there was no turning back. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/7 "2006-01-03T00:50:20Z")
That’s plenty more than fair use of Wikipedia… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/8 "2006-01-03T01:38:37Z")
Germany and Italy were defeated, Japan surrendered, I think that is the difference. The allies didn’t need to strike a bargan with Germany to end the war early, the war ws over. Japan still could have made things very difficult, and a free pass on certain things brought the war to a end sooner. > [@](#): > > When some of them claimed they were just following orders, nobody believed them. I think they beleived them, but concluded it wasn’t a good enough excuse, after all this would get them all off scott free as Hitler had gone bye bye. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/9 "2006-01-03T01:46:44Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > That’s plenty more than fair use of Wikipedia… Wikipedia is “copyleft” material – unlimited duplication allowed and encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/10 "2006-01-03T02:51:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Wikipedia is “copyleft” material – unlimited duplication allowed and encouraged. False. The content is copyrighted by the original authors and in order to use it you have to relicense it under the GFDL, while following it’s stipulations. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/11 "2006-01-03T03:02:42Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > That’s plenty more than fair use of Wikipedia… Even under regular copyright law, the exerpt is unlikely to be a violation of fair use, and it would require a judge to actually determine if it was. It is only a small portion of the entire work (the work being the entire Wikipedia), it has no effect on the value of the Wikipedia, it was used for comment and scholarship (both allowed), and the purpose of the use is hardly controversal. Even if Wikipedia were inclined to sue, their chances of winning the case are not good. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/12 "2006-01-03T03:07:22Z")
False. Each article and piece of media on Wikipedia is a copyrighted work. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/13 "2006-01-03T03:31:56Z")
Letting Hirohito off the hook got the allies off the hook for the invasion of Japan. If Hirohito stays emperor (at least initially and nominally), then Japan will accept _unconditional_ surrender If Hirohito were a war criminal, then obviously such a deal would be unconscionable. Therefore, obviously Hirohito cannot be a war criminal (regardless of the ambiguity in the extent of his actual powers) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/14 "2006-01-03T03:34:05Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > False. Each article and piece of media on Wikipedia is a copyrighted work. False. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/15 "2006-01-03T03:47:43Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > It was MacArthur’s idea that he be spared prosecution, but with one condition: that he publicly renounce his Divine status (the Emperor was believed to be a descendent of one of the Gods). The reason was so that there would be continuity in at least one aspect of Japanese society. > > ‘’’ He then asked MacArthur’s permission to worship his ancestors, got it, then proceeded worship the Sun Goddess. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/16 "2006-01-03T03:51:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > False. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights) For a year I produced a version of the entire Wikipedia database as a TomeRaider 3 file for pdas. I was required to put a copyright notice stating the original source **on every single article and photo**. > [@](#): > > Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License […] Notice that it says **this document**. The entire encyclopedia is not this document. You also missed this part: > [@](#): > > If you use part of a copyrighted work under “fair use”, […] you must make a note of that fact (along with names and dates). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/17 "2006-01-03T05:05:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Germany and Italy were defeated, Japan surrendered, I think that is the difference. Italy wasn’t completely defeated in the same way Germany or Japan were. After the fall of Sicily, a bunch of Italian government figures got together and decided they were on the wrong side of the war. They arrested Mussolini and opened negotiations with the Allies to get out of the war. This was the reason Italy wasn’t occupied after the war the same way Germany and Japan were. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/18 "2006-01-03T05:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > FWIW, I read in Modern Times, by Paul Johnson ([http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00...glance&n=283155](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00...glance&n=283155)), that the form of government at the time effectively precluded the emperor from playing any active role in policy decisions. He theoretically presided over Cabinet meetings – that is, he sat at an elevated table at the head of the room – but protocol forbade any direct verbal communications between him and his ministers; questions to the throne had to be submitted in writing, and replies issued the same way. Protocol was so cumbersome, in fact, even WRT to the ministers and military officers communicating with each other, that it was often almost impossible to say, after a meeting, exactly what decisions had been arrived at; which in effect left the generals and admirals free to do what they understood had been decided. Johnson blames the Japanese government’s worst blunders on its procedure of making (assumed) policy by (implicit, unspoken) consensus. Government direction in Japan was (and still is) less explicit than Western methods. But understandings are reached. Anyone who thinks Hirohito’s power was just theoretical has to remember that when he did decide to surrender in 1945, he simply had to give an order and do it. He could have given that order in 1937 or 1941 if he had wished. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/19 "2006-01-03T14:14:43Z")
There are some who hold that the whole notion of what constitutes a war crime and who is a war criminal is subjective, and completely up to the discretion of the victors. Using this view, if the Allies didn’t say Hirohito was a war criminal, then he wasn’t a war criminal. ---
**Author:** ![YPOD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e99b99/32.png) [@YPOD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YPOD)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119/20 "2006-01-03T16:43:15Z")
Hirohito was spared for the sake of expediting Japan’s surrender. He was the symbol of Japan - the emperor (by virtue of being emperor) was revered somehwere between George Washington and Jesus Christ by the common people, government officials may have been less in awe but could not totally overcome a cultural conditioning to provide tremendous respect respect to his office. The Emperor could influence the cabinet very easily. Yes, he was supposed to be above mundane worldly matters, but the fact was he was involved, but let the annoying details for his mere mortal cabinet to work out. Everything was done in his name, so when he made the recorded broadcast that the war was over, it was almost impossible for the die hards to oppose him. There was in fact a last minute attempt by the die hards to capture him and continue the war in his name - underlings disobeying and using the emperor as a figurehead were part and parcel of Japanese history. That recorded broadcast made it impossible. After the war Hirohito was portrayed as a simple peace loving man - that was not really true, as recently revealed diaries show that he did indeed favor the war party. He was keeping his head down and encouraging this nonsense for the sake of keeping his head period. He did in fact tell his ministers that they should not worry about his personal safety as part of any term of surrender; but by then the Japanese had had quiet reassurances through neutral governments that the office of Emperor would be continued - althought the details were not spelled out. I guess he figured that he would be bombed, hanged or deposed, so he took his chances on the noble self sacrifice ploy. It worked. After the war, he made it clear to the Allies that he would indeed cooperate - so they kept him on rather than have a martyr on their hands. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hirohito-is-not-a-war-criminal/338119.md?page=2)