# Hiroshima Day: A Worthy Cause **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542 "2002-07-30T15:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/141 "2002-08-08T07:29:08Z")
\ What halted the German nuclear weapons program? I seem to recall something about Norwegian commandos… \ ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/142 "2002-08-08T15:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daoloth \* > \*\*\ > > What halted the German nuclear weapons program? I seem to recall something about Norwegian commandos… > > \ \*\* Yes, they sabotaged the heavy water plant, and the attempted shipment of heavy water to Germany from occupied Norway. Brave SOB’s for sure. Also it seems the Germans were barking up the wrong tree research-wise, as I recall from a History Channel special on this (God I love the History channel). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/143 "2002-08-08T15:54:50Z")
Well, gee, what do we have here? An OP ranting about posters promoting a protest in the name of Hiroshima day being torn down, followed by a Great Debate as to whether the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified or not. Now I understand that there has been some congratulations all round by the “respected” poters for conducting such an informative debate. But just what, exactly, did the debate have to do with the OP? Where did the OP invite comments on Americas roll in WWII? If you didn’t have a comment to make on the posters being torn down (the OP remember?) then why post at all? Another poster got jumped all over for calling it a knee jerk reaction, but I must admit he/she took the post right out of my keyboard! Just because someone mentions Hiroshima, it doesn’t mean they’re having a go at the US. Maybe they just think that it would be best if things like that don’t happen again. Does anyone here think that it _should_ happen again? **Halo 13** I admire you for your persistance and enthusiasm for your cause, but you are pushing too hard, reacting rather than thinking, and that doesn’t really sit very well on this board, regardless of whether people agree with your opinions or not. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/144 "2002-08-08T16:06:47Z")
Ah that should be: **have** been congratulations… …“respected” po **s** ters Appologies for over using the word “post”. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt.J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sgt.J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sgt.J)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/145 "2002-08-08T17:51:05Z")
**Halo** , for fu **c** k sake, people are asking you some good questions here: > [@](#): > > ## posted by Miller: quote: > > ## You knowledge of events in questions may outstrip my own, however it is apparent your understanding of the underlying principles of the state mechanism, warfare, humanitarianism, human rights, capitalism and class struggle are typically lacking. > > Can you actually explain how a single one of those terms applies to the discussion at hand… If you have so much time to sit around and laugh, why don’t you and your mates try to actually formulate a coherent response, complete with FACTS, to some of the good points being made here? Your thread was hijacked, but in between the venom there are some real opportunities for you to advance your positions here. Most of the kids at your protests will be mindless sheep (in your eyes) consumers in 10 years. The people here are still interested in intellectual pursuits even though most of us are well beyond our college years. Take advantage of a real audience, not the poseurs at college rallies. Quit throwing out bullshit buzzwords and rhetoric and say something real… Unless that’s all you’ve got. In other words, Put up or shut the fuck up. (it would really be more interesting if you put up. To this point you have not.) ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/146 "2002-08-08T18:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Skogcat_ > Just because someone mentions Hiroshima, it doesn’t mean they’re having a go at the US. No, **this** means he’s having a go at the US: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Halo13_ > America, WAKE UP, the universe does not revolve around you, there is no fucking GOD! wake up! You Government is guilty, just like Saddam, just like bin laden, just like stalin, just like that ass-hole dictator/terrorist you used in Chile. … > > America problem is they don’t appreciate suffering, because they need to suffer more, so they can know for real what war is. … Those bitches try to drum up pear harbor, try to compare it to s11 , the two are totally different, before s11 America was last attacked by the british centuries ago. … I’m sick of your war-mongering, hypocrictical, bullshit govt. … US GOVT. YOU ARE THE TERRORISTS, NO BETTER THEN BIN LADEN (who you made, thanx for that pigs). FUK YOU! Oh, and FUK YOUR ‘DUTILESS RIGHTS’ ETHIC, you sick fuks. > > PS~ For those Americans who know how ‘evil’ thier shit is, get active, because America is starting to look more like china every day. In my opinion, some seriously good online conversation and education is resulting from a seriously lame rant. (Having said that, I agree that if **Halo13** had the right to place his posters where he did, whoever tore them down was completely in the wrong, and I’d be mad about it, too.) What’s to complain about? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/147 "2002-08-08T20:19:08Z")
I’ve seen it before. Shoot the kid with some tranqulizers and send him to [David Horowitz](http://www.frontpagemag.com/). Talk to your kids about radical leftism. This is your brain on leftism. Any questions? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/148 "2002-08-08T21:23:05Z")
Back up a couple steps, there, **Skogkat**. Look at the first page again. The first few posts address wether the idea of total nuclear disarmament, as supported by **Halo** , is either feasible or desirable. The first mention of America comes, not from the knee-jerk, pro-nuke, uber-patriotic Americans, but from an unwarranted, out-of-the-blue blast from **Hamish** , who was _agreeing with the OP._ To wit: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Hamish_Glad to see the knee-jerk “Don’t-mention-Hirosima-it-sounds-like-you’re-criticizing-America” crew is out in full force. > > Let’s be honest with ourselves – if America had attacked the harbour at Hiroshima, and Japan retaliated by dropping a couple atomic bombs on the Hawaiian Islands, the whole world would now be celebrating “Hawaii Day” – quite rightfully, too, given the massive loss if innocent civilian life that would entail. > > Is anyone else tired of America arguing “moral correctness” when it is the victim, and “defending our interests” when it’s the perpetrator? Pick one or the other. There’s no excuse for massive nuclear proliferation on any side. So let’s put that blame where it belongs: it was the anti-nuke contingent who first made this about the role of the US in WWII. And it wasn’t until **Halo** ’s second, rabid reply here that people started seriously abusing him, rather than merely disagreeing with him. And even that would have been avoided if he’d been civil about it, and not thrown a tantrum because \ not everyone in the world thinks exactly the way he does. For which we should be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/149 "2002-08-08T21:23:05Z")
Back up a couple steps, there, **Skogkat**. Look at the first page again. The first few posts address wether the idea of total nuclear disarmament, as supported by **Halo** , is either feasible or desirable. The first mention of America comes, not from the knee-jerk, pro-nuke, uber-patriotic Americans, but from an unwarranted, out-of-the-blue blast from **Hamish** , who was _agreeing with the OP._ To wit: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Hamish_Glad to see the knee-jerk “Don’t-mention-Hirosima-it-sounds-like-you’re-criticizing-America” crew is out in full force. > > Let’s be honest with ourselves – if America had attacked the harbour at Hiroshima, and Japan retaliated by dropping a couple atomic bombs on the Hawaiian Islands, the whole world would now be celebrating “Hawaii Day” – quite rightfully, too, given the massive loss if innocent civilian life that would entail. > > Is anyone else tired of America arguing “moral correctness” when it is the victim, and “defending our interests” when it’s the perpetrator? Pick one or the other. There’s no excuse for massive nuclear proliferation on any side. So let’s put that blame where it belongs: it was the anti-nuke contingent who first made this about the role of the US in WWII. And it wasn’t until **Halo** ’s second, rabid reply here that people started seriously abusing him, rather than merely disagreeing with him. And even that would have been avoided if he’d been civil about it, and not thrown a tantrum because \ not everyone in the world thinks exactly the way he does. For which we should be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/150 "2002-08-09T01:43:24Z")
**Skogcat** , stop trying to un-hijack this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/151 "2002-08-09T03:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* > > No, **this** means he’s having a go at the US:\*\* > > \ > > \*\*In my opinion, some seriously good online conversation and education is resulting from a seriously lame rant. (Having said that, I agree that if **Halo13** had the right to place his posters where he did, whoever tore them down was completely in the wrong, and I’d be mad about it, too.) What’s to complain about? \*\* I agree, the above rant (snipped) was an extreme over reaction to the hijacking of the OP, but the OP itself did not attack the US in anyway, it was only after the huge hijack that **Halo 13** started defending/attacking in ernest. If it was a lame rant, then shouldn’t it have been allowed to die a natural death? Maybe a few comments about thoughtless poster-removing party heads. **Miller** I did just go back and reread the first page to refresh my memory. **Halo 13** did leave an opening by making the statement that Atomic weapons have never saved lives. This is technically true as we can never know what would have happened **if** history was different, but it did leave the opening for the defend-America’s-war-effort group. Ok, I admit then that after a couple of oblique comments by a few posters comparing Hiroshima to other atrocities and inferring that the Japanese got what they deserved for attacking Pearl Harbour, **Hamish** sealed this threads fate with his post. BTW comments along the lines of “You would all be speaking a strange mix of German/Japanese if it wasn’t for the good ol’ US of A” don’t make me want to fall on the ground grovelling in gratitude at the feet of the United States crying “I’m not worthy!” It’s that kind of attitude that really grates. WW2 was a joint effort between many countries. Some, such as New Zealand, were so far away from the action that we had no reason to believe our own soil would be attacked. Yet we still provided troops and assets. We even did it at the first sign of war, in defense of Britain and France. We didn’t wait until we got dragged into it, kicking and screaming. We have also provided help in other war efforts including Vietnam without waiting for the enemy to step on our soil (no doubt, thanks to the ANZUS). Even now, without ANZUS, NZ is still willing to commit to over seas theatres, particularly in a peace keeping roll. So, thank you America for your contribution, I have no doubt that it was an _extremely important_ one (no sarcasm, serious here), but please don’t come on as the great saviour of us all, true or not, it is an ugly attitude unworthy of a great nation. P.S. If it’s not clear, I’m a Kiwi who happens to live in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/152 "2002-08-09T04:07:02Z")
It’s odd… I get the sensation that I am in the defend-America’s-war-effort group in Skogcat’s eyes. Yet I was at many junctions of this double thread affair seen as the opposition… Truth is that I am in that group, since the US was part of the Allies and who in their right mind supports the Axis? I have to give Skogcat a point though, knee-jerk defense of the US war effort tends to belittle the rest of the Allied sacrifice to combat oppression. Meanwhile, (since it was brought up in re NZ) I might add that the territorial US wasn’t really immediately threatened either, it was world stability and the freedom of all Humanity that was threatened. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/153 "2002-08-09T13:27:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skogcat \* > BTW comments along the lines of “You would all be speaking a strange mix of German/Japanese if it wasn’t for the good ol’ US of A” don’t make me want to fall on the ground grovelling in gratitude at the feet of the United States crying “I’m not worthy!” It’s that kind of attitude that really grates. Okay, I will freely admit I’m lazy, and haven’t re-read the thread. Did someone actually say that? I don’t recall it, but my memory isn’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/154 "2002-08-09T14:07:43Z")
## quote: ## Originally posted by Skogcat BTW comments along the lines of “You would all be speaking a strange mix of German/Japanese if it wasn’t for the good ol’ US of A” don’t make me want to fall on the ground grovelling in gratitude at the feet of the United States crying “I’m not worthy!” It’s that kind of attitude that really grates. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* > > Okay, I will freely admit I’m lazy, and haven’t re-read the thread. Did someone actually say that? I don’t recall it, but my memory isn’t very good. \*\* Well, I just spent the last hour reading this thread for the first time, from start to finish. Anyway, this comment struck me as odd as well. I don’t think anyone made any comment remotely resembling this. I do recall one person who made some silly comment about wishing the US had dropped 100 bombs on Japan, and he may have said something such as this, but I don’t recall him doing that. In any event, even if he did, he was castigated and generally dismissed, and really has no bearing on this thread. I don’t think there was a single comment along the lines of which Scogcat claims, much less multiple. Like you, though, I may have missed something. Perhaps Scogcat could provide a few specific quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Halo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Halo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Halo13)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/155 "2002-08-09T14:21:12Z")
I read a **Harold Truman** quote recently; he referred to the bombing of Hiroshima at the time as, “ **the greatest thing in history** ”. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/156 "2002-08-09T14:27:18Z")
Wanna provide a bit more background on that quote? I’m having trouble accepting it at face value. I’m assuming you’re referring to Harry S Truman. Have you by any chance read “The Making of the Atomic Bomb”, by Richard Rhodes? I recommend it as source material if you’re gonna keep on spouting about this. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/157 "2002-08-09T14:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Halo13 \* > \*\*I read a **Harold Truman** quote recently; he referred to the bombing of Hiroshima at the time as, “ **the greatest thing in history** ”. \*\* Do you mean Harry Truman, US president at the time? I know Harry is short for Harold, but in this case, his name was just Harry, I believe. And what did you expect him to say? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/158 "2002-08-09T14:31:47Z")
Who the hell is Harold Truman? If **Halo13** means Harry Truman, the U.S. president who gave the final authorization to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a)I’d like a cite, and b) if **Halo13** can’t even get that basic facts straight (Harold?), why does he think anyone will pay much heed to his interpretation of the events of August 1945? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/159 "2002-08-09T14:31:47Z")
Who in the world is **Harold Truman** (and why should I care)? More importantly, what was the exact statement being attributed to him, rather than some lazy cut-and-snip phrase taken wholly out of context? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542/160 "2002-08-09T14:38:34Z")
Here’s the context. This is taken from the homepage of the USS Augusta. [http://www.internet-esq.com/ussaugusta/truman/](http://www.internet-esq.com/ussaugusta/truman/) > [@](#): > > On 7 August, following the Potsdam Conference, President Truman boarded the USS Augusta for the return voyage to Newport News, Virginia. While onboard Captain Frank Graham, an officer in the Augusta’s map room handed Truman the following message: > > HIROSHIMA BOMBED VISUALLY WITH ONE TENTH [CLOUD] COVER AT 052315A [AUGUST 5, 7:15 P.M., WASHINGTON TIME]. THERE WAS NO FIGHTER OPPOSITION AND NO FLAK. PARSON REPORTS 15 MINUTES AFTER BOMB AS FOLLOWS: ‘RESULTS CLEAR-CUT SUCCESSFUL IN ALL RESPECTS. VISIBLE EFFECTS GREATER THAN IN ANY TEST. CONDITION NORMAL IN AIRPLANE FOLLOWING DELIVERY.’ > > Truman turned, shook Graham’s hand and exclaimed to his staff “this is the greatest thing in history!”. Truman then announced the news to the crew of the Augusta. John Vallone (QM 3/c N Division) was present at that time and e-mails us the following account: > > President Truman was having mess with the crew in the forward mess hall when he announced to us “the United States has just dropped an atomic bomb on Japan having a force equal to 20,000 times stronger than TNT explosive”. I was astonished by his statement and I joined in with applause with the rest of the crew…after all Japan was the bad guy and our enemy… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hiroshima-day-a-worthy-cause/121542.md?page=9)