# His Dark Materials - Appreciation Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102 "2003-09-27T03:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/21 "2003-09-28T22:06:36Z")
I liked it well enough to read it a second time a few years later, and to send nice hardbound copied to my niece as a present. But I agree with the criticisms leveled by **ddgryphon**. Especially as it becomes apparent when Ms. Coulter traps the witch and forces her to admit that Lyra is prophecied to be **Eve Take II**. So the stage has been set for the Ultimate Confrontation. Will Lyra defeat God? What would life be like without a “fall from grace”? Will it turn out that the whole “original sin” thing was God’s punishment as victor over vanquished? How did **Eve I** actually screw up? Will the serpent be vindicated? Will Lyra defeat both the serpent _and_ God? Alternatively, will it turn out that the Churcy of Lyra’s world is not “of God” at all and a real God with a different nature becomes evident after this confrontation? Instead, we get the end of eternal life in hell for everyone, which we didn’t know about, and people are freed to die when they die, and we don’t even get to see what her accomplishment does to the Church. Pullman wimps out. The story reconciles mainly by avoiding any of this and sort of meanders off to an entirely acceptable entertainment-fiction ending but without the nervy insinuations and implications promised. (Kind of reminiscent of how Stephen King solved the Good vs. Evil thing he set up in _The Stand_ by letting evil blow itself up, letting good get distraced and sort of wither away, and having mediocrity and the _status quo ante_ of everyday folks and everyday life left standing when all was said and done. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/22 "2003-09-28T22:21:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KingLupid \* > \*\*ddgryphon, I would have to agree on the point about the war, but I didn’t feel that it retracted from the quality of the book too terribly. > > I guess we should also say here that you definately should NOT read these books if you are deeply religious and can’t stand someone’s questioning of the merits of said religion. \*\* Actually, the religion bashing didn’t bother me (though I am religious, I don’t try to shove my beliefs down other peoples throat, and can deal with someone mythologizing my belief system for the purpose of a story). I’ll agree, however, that the organized church has a lot to answer for. What I thought happened was that the author’s perspective became skewed to the point of detracting from an overall tremendously well written and imagined book. Maybe that was the point – but for me when it all hit the fan in three, it was like hitting a brick wall at 500 MPH – where’d the story go? I will agree that people who can’t deal with Christianity being treated as myth need to stay away from this. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/23 "2003-09-28T23:57:48Z")
I was another one who liked it until the third book. Actually, I thought it was appropriate that Lyra and Will can’t be together. I mean, it sucked, but it was a decent part of the story. But I felt that Pullman’s whole anti-organized religion thing really brought down the end of the book. By the way, what was up with the Lyra == Eve II thing. Okay, let’s think about this. The first Eve fell (Pullman seems to connect this with having sex), and much sorrow resulted thereof. So in order to fix things, Lyra should… fall too? Que? Doesn’t make logical sense. If you try one thing and it doesn’t work, why would doing it again make things better? Aargh. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/24 "2003-09-29T00:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hanza \* > **It’s called “The Golden Compass”? In the U.K edition, the first book is titled “Northern Lights”, which seeing as Pullman is British, is, I guess, the intended title. Why they fiddle with these things for US publication, I dunno (like Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone). Is it referred to throughout the book as a “compass”?. In the U.K version it’s called an “alethiometer”. I guess “Golden Compass” is more consistant with the style of the titles of the other 2 books, but “Northern Lights” seem more evocative and intriguing to me.** It’s called an alethiometer, but it’s described as looking like a golden compass at least twice. Northern Lights is, IMO, a lame title. Any number of books could have that title, and it isn’t terribly interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/25 "2003-09-29T00:49:38Z")
Okay, I get what you folks are saying about Lyra and Will. I thought the Amber Spyglass was pretty good overall. Sidebar: Clockwork is a nice little ditty. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102/26 "2003-09-29T01:26:02Z")
The ending with Lyra was perfect. The ending with Will was, I thought, lame and inexcusable. Not only were there still a lot of loose ends left hanging in the “real world,” but he was hustled off stage quickly and brusquely. It gave me the feeling the author had just lost interest in him and his story. Anyway, The Golden Compass is a great book and heartily recommended to anyone interested in fantasy. I don’t think the other two volumes live up to the promise of the first, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-appreciation-thread/204102.md?page=1)