# His Dark Materials Films (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796 "2004-12-08T19:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/1 "2004-12-08T19:40:15Z")
Sounds like big changes are planned to the plot in order to get these books filmed: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4077987.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4077987.stm) Do you think it will be possible to make these changes without wrecking the story? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/2 "2004-12-08T21:08:41Z")
If they just change the titles used for the main “adversaries”, they can still get the message through. What I’m amazed at is the pretense that HDM isn’t anti-religious! Maybe not anti-spiritual (which can mean anything these days), but definitely anti-religious! ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/3 "2004-12-08T21:24:33Z")
[http://www.bridgetothestars.net/index.php?d=movie](http://www.bridgetothestars.net/index.php?d=movie) Brian there is PP interview on that site too. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/4 "2004-12-08T22:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > She is drawn into an epic struggle against the Church, which has been carrying out experiments on children in an attempt to remove original sin. As a Catholic, I don’t this offensive. I find it downright stupid. It’s not like you can use some laser to remove it like varicose veins! This guy must be beter tha Shakespeare if he can get people to read past this! ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/5 "2004-12-08T22:38:42Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > As a Catholic, I don’t this offensive. I find it downright stupid. It’s not like you can use some laser to remove it like varicose veins! This guy must be beter tha Shakespeare if he can get people to read past this! Read the book. It’ll make sense then. I don’t want to spoil it for you. ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/6 "2004-12-08T23:24:56Z")
I read the article, and it’ll be really interesting to see how the director removes God and the Church while keeping the general series of events intact, if that’s even possible. Personally, I loved this series because of the epic nature of the different universes involved and the weird pseudoscience involved. If they can at least maintain that, then they’ll have my $8.50. My big fear is that they’ll dumb down the plot to make it “a children’s movie”. The storyline is most certainly not kid-friendly (even though the main charcters are children). The producers would be doing a great mis-service if they market this movie to children. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/7 "2004-12-08T23:40:19Z")
> [@JustPlainBryan](#): > > My big fear is that they’ll dumb down the plot to make it “a children’s movie”. The storyline is most certainly not kid-friendly (even though the main charcters are children). The producers would be doing a great mis-service if they market this movie to children. They market the books as Children’s lit, so it’d stand to reason that they’d market the movies to children too, don’t you think? I hate the books, but if the changes are big enough (like making the protagonist a sympathetic character, for example) I might rent it some day. Ditto for that Series of Unfortunate Events movie, too. ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/8 "2004-12-09T00:24:00Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > They market the books as Children’s lit, so it’d stand to reason that they’d market the movies to children too, don’t you think? Marketing be damned. It’s one thing to market these books as children’s lit, and quite another to create a “rated G” children’s movie out of a series that has some really disturbing (but pivotal) moments in it. In their efforts to make a “rated G” movie, the producers may zap all the interesting plot developments out. That’s my biggest fear. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/9 "2004-12-09T02:30:15Z")
Quoting the interview I linked to earlier > [@](#): > > [BridgetotheStars.Net](http://BridgetotheStars.Net): What age range will you be shooting for, and what rating do you hope to get from the MPAA? > > Chris Weitz: Not to sound like a Milton Bradley game, but 8-80 seems an appropriate age range. A PG or PG-13 rating seems right; R ratings are restrictive and I can’t imagine what in the books would necessitate an R. There are elements of violence and suffering that may push us past a PG, and I have no desire to soft-pedal them. So perhaps a PG-13 makes the most sense. Brian ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/10 "2004-12-09T03:27:20Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Quoting the interview I linked to earlier > > Brian Groovy. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/11 "2004-12-09T05:28:48Z")
I was so looking forward to this movie adaptation, but now I’m not sure I’ll bother seeing it. How in the world will they pull off a decent adaptation while dumbing it down? And all for Bush’s America? Bah. Another reason to be pissed off about the election. - Rebekkah ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/12 "2004-12-09T05:30:51Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > As a Catholic, I don’t this offensive. I find it downright stupid. It’s not like you can use some laser to remove it like varicose veins! This guy must be beter tha Shakespeare if he can get people to read past this! I really would encourage you to read the books. There has been a lot of misunderstanding in the mainstream press about the purpose of the books. You might find some of the premises a bit off-putting at first, but stick through. - Rebekkah ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/13 "2004-12-09T10:15:40Z")
Aw, damn. Now I won’t get to stand outside a movie theatre in a baying mob, holding up a placard saying “Phillip Pullman, Burn In Hell!”. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/14 "2004-12-09T11:51:41Z")
Answer to question in OP: No. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/15 "2004-12-09T12:48:00Z")
Just to mention that there is already an [adaptation for stage](http://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/?lid=6158&cc=1), although the length precludes an easy translation from stage to film (note the play is in two parts). ---
**Author:** ![Kantalooppi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@Kantalooppi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kantalooppi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/16 "2004-12-09T13:25:29Z")
I can see why they would make the changes. I mean, consider how some people have been up in arms about Harry Potter being anti-Christian, for God’s sake - just imagine what the reaction would be to HDM, especially the Amber Spyglass, and especially considering it’s going to be marketed as a children’s movie. IMHO the book trilogy’s managed to stay just under the radar for a massive controversy (there’s certainly been some controversy), and the film would certainly change that. I just wonder how they’ll manage the whole ‘cutting out the God’ thing. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/17 "2004-12-09T14:58:00Z")
> [@Kantalooppi](#): > > I can see why they would make the changes. I mean, consider how some people have been up in arms about Harry Potter being anti-Christian, for God’s sake - just imagine what the reaction would be to HDM, especially the Amber Spyglass, and especially considering it’s going to be marketed as a children’s movie. IMHO the book trilogy’s managed to stay just under the radar for a massive controversy (there’s certainly been some controversy), and the film would certainly change that. > > I just wonder how they’ll manage the whole ‘cutting out the God’ thing. Just keep referring to “God” as “The Authority”, give the Church another title, suggest that perhaps “Dust” is the Spiritual Reality behind everything and let all else stand. Heck, I’ve read a knowledgeable C’tian essay on HDM which posits that if one views “The Authority” as a renegade Archangel (maybe Lucifer?) who corrupts the Church & is the target of another rebellion among angels that he has fooled into thinking he’s God, then it could be reconciled with C’tian faith. Yeah- that’s a great leap, but still a possible one. (IIRC, it was on the “First Things” website.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/18 "2004-12-09T19:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I really would encourage you to read the books. There has been a lot of misunderstanding in the mainstream press about the purpose of the books. You might find some of the premises a bit off-putting at first, but stick through. I’m afraid I have little time for reading more fiction books, and frankly, bland endorsements don’t exactly encourage me. In any event, no one seems to be particularly interested in giving me spoilers, which I assure you I don’t mind. If there is any logical fashion they can interest me, I might take a look. However, if he has just some damned silly premise and a well-written book behind it, I probably don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/19 "2004-12-09T20:06:51Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I’m afraid I have little time for reading more fiction books, and frankly, bland endorsements don’t exactly encourage me. Bland endorsement retracted. > [@Friar Ted](#): > > Just keep referring to “God” as “The Authority”, give the Church another title, suggest that perhaps “Dust” is the Spiritual Reality behind everything and let all else stand. I suppose this is one way to adapt the book to a particular audience, but I would then argue, what’s the point? For me, the story is spoiled by removing the very necessary critique of established religion to the negation of the far more relevant spirituality we crave. This, I think, is Pullman’s core theme in the books, and I thinik the movie will suffer by “dumbing it down” for an audience that shouldn’t even be the focus of the movie. By keeping it true to its original intent, the movie maker might actually start a necessary dialogue, imho. - Rebekkah ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/20 "2004-12-09T20:25:28Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > Do you think it will be possible to make these changes without wrecking the story? Pullman already wrecked the story, how can a movie house do worse? > [@JustPlainBryan](#): > > Read the book. It’ll make sense then. I don’t want to spoil it for you. No, it doesn’t make sense. The first book was good, the second was okay, and the third (where the Evil Church[sup]TM[/sup] plot plays out) was unreadable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796.md?page=2)