# His Dark Materials Films (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796 "2004-12-08T19:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/21 "2004-12-09T20:43:11Z")
Hmm. They’re among my favorite books, and I don’t find the stuff about the church to be a problem at all. It’s certainly nowhere near as preachy as, say, _Narnia_ is. The excision of original sin, **bandit** , isn’t happening on Earth, but in another world in which one’s “sin” is physically manifest as a daemon, a familiar, that follows you around. The experiments are attempting to sever the daemon from the child, thereby, in the belief of this particular cult, returning the child to innocence. I find Pullman’s work to represent a gargantuan imagination. The first appearance of Panzerbjorn left me breathless. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![EmeraldGrue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dc4da7/32.png) [@EmeraldGrue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmeraldGrue)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/22 "2004-12-09T21:04:18Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Heck, I’ve read a knowledgeable C’tian essay on HDM which posits that if one views “The Authority” as a renegade Archangel (maybe Lucifer?) who corrupts the Church & is the target of another rebellion among angels that he has fooled into thinking he’s God, then it could be reconciled with C’tian faith. Yeah- that’s a great leap, but still a possible one. (IIRC, it was on the “First Things” website.) It could totally work. I remember a part (in the third book) where one of the angels talks about the Authority as, yes, just another angel who takes charge and isn’t the Creator. I hope (against hope) they do it that way; without the Church the whole harsh-ascetic-denial vs. embracing-physical-world thing wouldn’t work half as well. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/23 "2004-12-09T21:57:20Z")
Strange. Could possibly work. I’ll think about reading it, though I have precious little time. Except today, where I just can’t write anymore RPG stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/24 "2004-12-09T21:57:31Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > The excision of original sin, **bandit** , > > isn’t happening on Earth, but in another world in which one’s “sin” is physically manifest as a daemon, a familiar, that follows you around. The experiments are attempting to sever the daemon from the child, thereby, in the belief of this particular cult, returning the child to innocence. I’d always read daemons as being a representation of people’s _souls_, not sin. The children severed from their daemons did not sin, but they also exhibited no free will. They became bland and incurious (those that didn’t die of shock). Pullman’s point being, that which makes us human also gives us the capacity to sin. ---
**Author:** ![Aagramn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Aagramn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aagramn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/25 "2004-12-09T22:17:43Z")
> [@Kantalooppi](#): > > I mean, consider how some people have been up in arms about Harry Potter being anti-Christian, for God’s sake - just imagine what the reaction would be to HDM, especially the Amber Spyglass, and especially considering it’s going to be marketed as a children’s movie. Has there really been much genuine controversy over Harry Potter? HDM can be read as an attack on dogmatic or fundamentalist religion instead of just religion in general. The Archbishop of Canterbury has recommended reading of HDM in Religious Education classes, “because it allowed students to clarify what objections were being made to religion.”. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3497702.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3497702.stm) On the other hand, if you read HDM very literally you could come to the conclusion it’s one of the most sustained and vehement attacks on Christianity ever made. ---
**Author:** ![blinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@blinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinx)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/26 "2004-12-09T22:20:15Z")
I can’t imagine how you can cut anything so essential out of the movie and still end up with the same story that I enjoyed reading so much. Why can’t people not just, not watch the movies or read the books they don’t agree with instead of trying to spoil them for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/27 "2004-12-10T16:28:36Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > I’d always read daemons as being a representation of people’s _souls_, not sin. The children severed from their daemons did not sin, but they also exhibited no free will. They became bland and incurious (those that didn’t die of shock). Pullman’s point being, that which makes us human also gives us the capacity to sin. **Aagramn** , you’re entirely correct. I put the word “sin” in quotes in my spoiler as a nod to this. The underlying philosophy, Pullman’s take on what’s really going on, doesn’t become clear until the end of the third book. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/28 "2004-12-10T20:28:08Z")
> [@Aagramn](#): > > I’d always read daemons as being a representation of people’s _souls_, not sin. The children severed from their daemons did not sin, but they also exhibited no free will. They became bland and incurious (those that didn’t die of shock). Pullman’s point being, that which makes us human also gives us the capacity to sin. I didn’t realize that there was another take on this but yours, but then again I only read up until 2/3rds through the second book… ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/29 "2004-12-10T20:37:53Z")
Damn. I was so looking forward to seeing these books get adapted for the big screen. Especially given the story. But if they’re going to take the coward’s way out and remove the elements that make the story so interesting, then it almost certainly won’t be worth seeing. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796/30 "2004-12-10T21:14:00Z")
To Elfkin 477 esp. - Thank you for saying you hated these books. I barely made it through the first one. Friends, other readers, reviewers, all said how great the next two were also, but I just couldn’t find it in me to waste my time with them. I was beginning to think I was the only one anywhere with this opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-films-spoilers/278796.md?page=1)