# 'His Dark Materials' to be a BBC TV series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [November 4, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587 "2015-11-04T04:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/81 "2020-01-13T16:14:26Z")
My wife and I (and our former group of game-of-thrones watching friends) just finished watching the whole series, and the pretty universal reaction was… meh. They were all trying so hard. The acting was good. The cinematography was good. And yet… we found ourselves just not really caring. I think it did a VERY bad job of world-building. I’ve read the books, but long enough ago that I forgot many of the details, and I found the details of the world just not well-explained, and not hanging together well. Which, frankly, might be a weakness of the books as well, but one that’s easier to gloss over in book form. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/82 "2020-01-13T16:14:27Z")
Then I think that it is pretty much time for you to pull the plug and not bother with the rest of the series–it isn’t for you. (Same goes for the books–they work the same way–an odd setting that is slowly made clear throughout the book, just like vast amounts of other fantasy/SF.) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/83 "2020-01-14T02:17:57Z")
I got curious about how far it is into the book before the nature of dæmons was discussed, and did a key-word search for “dæmon” on an ebook of _The Golden Compass_. As far as I can tell, it wasn’t discussed at all, they were simply taken for granted. The closest it got to being philosophical about them was when a certain someone said to Lyra “A (deleted for spoiler)’s armor is his soul, just as your dæmon is your soul.” It isn’t until in the second book that the idea that it was anything than the normal order of things is even touched, they are just matter-of-factly there–the first book was all fish, so no reason to bring up water. The show managed to briefly touch on the subject in the first season only because it blended elements of the second book into the first. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/84 "2020-01-14T03:07:11Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The closest it got to being philosophical about them was when a certain someone said to Lyra “A (deleted for spoiler)’s armor is his soul, just as your dæmon is your soul.” . Why hide that? Why is it a spoiler? It was in the dialogue of the very season we are discussing. Everyone who is talking about their thoughts about this season am has heard it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/85 "2020-01-14T07:07:16Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I got curious about how far it is into the book before the nature of dæmons was discussed, and did a key-word search for “dæmon” on an ebook of _The Golden Compass_. As far as I can tell, it wasn’t discussed at all, they were simply taken for granted. The closest it got to being philosophical about them was when a certain someone said to Lyra “A (deleted for spoiler)’s armor is his soul, just as your dæmon is your soul.” It isn’t until in the second book that the idea that it was anything than the normal order of things is even touched, they are just matter-of-factly there–the first book was all fish, so no reason to bring up water. The show managed to briefly touch on the subject in the first season only because it blended elements of the second book into the first. They’re just familiars. I mean, the concept of a fantasy world where everyone has familiars is interesting, but it’s hardly groundbreaking. I’ve never been a big fan of familiars, anyway. You always forget they’re around. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/86 "2020-01-14T08:54:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I got curious about how far it is into the book before the nature of dæmons was discussed, and did a key-word search for “dæmon” on an ebook of _The Golden Compass_. As far as I can tell, it wasn’t discussed at all, they were simply taken for granted. The closest it got to being philosophical about them was when a certain someone said to Lyra “A (deleted for spoiler)’s armor is his soul, just as your dæmon is your soul.” It isn’t until in the second book that the idea that it was anything than the normal order of things is even touched, they are just matter-of-factly there–the first book was all fish, so no reason to bring up water. The show managed to briefly touch on the subject in the first season only because it blended elements of the second book into the first. That’s fine, and I’m sure it works perfectly well in a book. A purely literal medium gives you words and nothing else. There is nothing else to distract or inform whereas a visual medium may also rely on sets, sounds, editing, framing and acting etc. to make a point and if it is not done well those can confuse _rather_ than inform. What one element suggests can be conflicted by another. e.g. everyone having an animal companion, even with little explanation, is not confusing by itself. However, making the point that everyone has them creates the expectation that you will _see_ everyone with an animal companion and when you clearly don’t, _that_ is a confusing point. In a book however, your mind will create a world that _is_ a constant swirling menagerie. Same with the animal speech. On film, where every voice tends to have a very obvious source it seems clumsy at best to not make sure that the same is true for the animals. Same with the changing “form” it was confusingly introduced on film in a way that is not a problem in a book. In one scene the ferret is one colour, in another it has changed and we wonder if they are talking to another daemon entirely. I’m not going to dissect every issue, the above are all to do just with the animals but they are indicative of a clumsiness in general that made it very hard to follow. Any of those elements in isolation (or even a few) are not a problem if the world-building is done well in general as you trust in your understanding and can devote brain time to pondering those mysteries. Having\* too many\* of those elements, badly handled, all at one time _is_ a problem without prior knowledge of the material. I think this is one of those rare occaisions where the series needs to be extended. I’m on record of bemoaning the fact that often producers will spin out a thin story (or no story) when they clearly don’t know where they are going. In this case there is a very clear arc to complete and it probably needs to go much slower in these initial stages in order to keep viewers engaged, keep them watching and then allow them them to move faster later on. It was too much, too soon, too confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/87 "2020-01-14T14:25:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Why hide that? Why is it a spoiler? It was in the dialogue of the very season we are discussing. Everyone who is talking about their thoughts about this season am has heard it. But not in episode 1. Which is as far as Novelty Bobble has viewed. So it was a spoiler for a little thing called “common courtesy.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/88 "2020-01-14T14:31:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They’re just familiars. [No](https://hisdarkmaterials.fandom.com/wiki/D%C3%A6mon). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/89 "2020-01-14T14:36:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > On film, where every voice tends to have a very obvious source it seems clumsy at best to not make sure that the same is true for the animals. You mentioned this before and I’m not sure what you mean by it. Could you be thinking about when Pan turns into a moth? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/90 "2020-01-14T14:39:37Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But not in episode 1. Which is as far as Novelty Bobble has viewed. Then I was under a misapprehension. I thought Novelty Bobble and family had seen the entire first season and was still confused by all these points. Episode 1 introduces a bunch of mysteries. It doesn’t explain any of them. I don’t consider that a shortcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/91 "2020-01-14T14:43:29Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You mentioned this before and I’m not sure what you mean by it. Could you be thinking about when Pan turns into a moth? Well there you go, it was not apparent to me that it \*had \*turned into a moth, I saw a moth, didn’t understand what it was or who it belonged to. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/92 "2020-01-14T14:44:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Then I was under a misapprehension. I thought Novelty Bobble and family had seen the entire first season and was still confused by all these points. > > Episode 1 introduces a bunch of mysteries. It doesn’t explain any of them. I don’t consider that a shortcoming. No just episode one. A question for you, had you read the books prior to watching the series? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/93 "2020-01-14T15:13:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No just episode one. > > A question for you, had you read the books prior to watching the series? Yes, I posted my history with this series earlier in the thread. I watched the Golden Compass, then I read the three books, then I pretty much forgot all the details until I started watching this series. The series has its faults–I haven’t decided for myself whether I think it’s actually good, but I don’t think that the lack of explanations in episode 1 is one of its faults. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/94 "2020-01-14T15:44:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [No](https://hisdarkmaterials.fandom.com/wiki/D%C3%A6mon). Yeah, I know what Pullman calls them. They’re familiars. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/95 "2020-01-14T16:04:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, I know what Pullman calls them. They’re familiars. Yes, the daemons are pretty much a variation on the concept of familiars. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/96 "2020-01-14T16:26:22Z")
I never knew that traditional familiars were the soul of the people and killing them killed the person. Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/97 "2020-01-14T16:36:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The series has its faults–I haven’t decided for myself whether I think it’s actually good, but I don’t think that the lack of explanations in episode 1 is one of its faults. No, lack of explanations as such may not be a fault but I just don’t trust the show that it is leaving things unexplained through conscious choice rather than a poor adaptation. I guess I’m disappointed because it looks so good and it should be my thing. There is also a “war of the worlds” adaptation on the BBC and I may give that a whirl instead and perhaps try watching the first episode of HDM again with headphones and no-one else in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/98 "2020-01-14T16:42:21Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I never knew that traditional familiars were the soul of the people and killing them killed the person. Learn something new every day. It’s a variation on the concept. I didn’t say it was \*identical \*to “traditional familiars.” ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/99 "2020-01-14T16:57:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No, lack of explanations as such may not be a fault but I just don’t trust the show that it is leaving things unexplained through conscious choice rather than a poor adaptation. > > I guess I’m disappointed because it looks so good and it should be my thing. There is also a “war of the worlds” adaptation on the BBC and I may give that a whirl instead and perhaps try watching the first episode of HDM again with headphones and no-one else in the room. Did you ever consider watching with the subtitles on? It seems like you sometimes have difficulty understanding the dialogue. You may have had less unanswered questions if you were able to read everything that was being said. Like the ceremony of the adolescent’s daemon settling into it’s permanent form. They spelled that out clearly but if you aren’t picking up everything that’s said things would certainly be more confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587/100 "2020-01-14T17:18:54Z")
I was just taking a glance at the first episode again, and noticed something that I had forgotten–it opens with a brief text primer: > [@](#): > > This story starts in another world. One that is both like, and unlike, your own. Here, a human soul takes the physical form of an animal, known as a daemon. The relationship between human and daemon is sacred. This world has been controlled for centuries by the all-powerful Magisterium. Except in the wilderness of the north, where witches whisper of a prophecy. A prophecy of a child with a great destiny. During the Great Flood, this child was brought to Oxford. And in some of the earliest dialog in [the episode](https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=his-dark-materials-2019&episode=s01e01), this conversation takes place: > [@](#): > > Roger: Why do daemons disappear when you die? And yet humans leave these nasty skeletons behind? Do you ever think about what animal Pan will settle as when he stops changing form? > > Lyra: I think about it. Pan and I talk about it. Pan thinks he will be a lion. > > Pan: I don’t! > > Lyra: I think he’ll settle as a sloth, or a guinea pig. > > Roger: You said you wanted something cunning, like a fox. > > Lyra: And you? What do you think Salcilia will settle as? > > Roger: Oh. A house marten or a house cat? So it is all laid out there really early. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his-dark-materials-to-be-a-bbc-tv-series/736587.md?page=6)