# His4Ever, JerseyDiamond and Joe\_Cool are hypocrites. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139 "2002-11-27T17:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/201 "2002-11-29T21:39:00Z")
only on a good night, Esprix… ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/202 "2002-11-29T22:49:23Z")
His4Ever,you said: > [@](#): > > There’s a difference between a person recognizing a sin, turning from it, and asking forgiveness compared to refusing to recognize it and repent of it and stop doing it. Getting divorced is not what people are talking about here. Its not what you have done in the past that people are talking about, its what you are doing in the present. I had a freind years ago that discovered his wife had been married previously(she had never told him…first husband was abuseive). He and his wife were very devout Christians, so they talked about it, and after that point they were celibate from that day forward, because for her to have sex with him would be adultry(they stayed togeather). Basically, what people are saying to you, is that if you are willing to tell homosexuals that they should not have sex with the people they are in love with, that you should not have have sex with your current spouse either. Personally, again, while I admire my freind for his will power and courage of his convictions, I dont know that I could do that. Luckily, it is not a decision that I have had to make. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/203 "2002-11-29T23:16:22Z")
I think I’ll bow out of this particular thread. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/204 "2002-11-29T23:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I think I’ll bow out of this particular thread. Have fun. \*\* Of course you will. Not only is your point of view being ripped apart and shown to be crap, but you are shown as forcing a narrow view which attacks and is harmful to others and yourself. Instead of thinking about it, you run to salve your wounds and then come back as idiotic as ever, clinging to the same bigoted and biased crap as before. :smack: :wally :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/205 "2002-11-30T00:00:16Z")
God forbid you ever answer a direct question directly and honestly, hey, H4E? Whoops. There’s another direct question. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/206 "2002-11-30T00:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I think I’ll bow out of this particular thread. Have fun. \*\* You know, if you can’t take it-don’t dish it out. You are a moral coward and a Pharisee. Have a nice life. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/207 "2002-11-30T00:25:34Z")
Honestly, H4E, there is one command in my faith that I really do wrestle with: > [@](#): > > _Doctrine & Covenants 64:8-11_ > [sup]8[/sup]My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened. > [sup]9[/sup]Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive on another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin. > [sup]10[/sup]I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men. > [sup]11[/sup]And ye ought to say in your hearts–let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds. Now, some folks in my church think that only applies to disagreements between two members of the LDS church and a number of folks believe, as I do, that it’s a direct command to forgive everyone everything. You’ll notice that I’m not telling you to believe it; I’m not telling you to forgive everything. I’m saying that I think I should follow that bit of what I believe is scripture and I find myself failing to follow it on occasion. But, for giggles, let’s pretend it’s not scripture. Do you think it’s good advice for me to follow? I think it is and I think I’ll continue trying to follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/208 "2002-11-30T00:50:00Z")
I’m curious now: Exactly how many threads has H4E “bowed out of” when it got too hot? ---
**Author:** ![DarkPrince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DarkPrince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkPrince)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/209 "2002-11-30T01:56:01Z")
Translation of H4E rambling: > [@](#): > > I sin, but it’s ok because I know exactly what my god is thinking, and he says I’m forgiven. All of you other guys who are breaking the rules though, you’re all burning in the forsaken abyss of fire because, even though some of you believe in the same god as me, your god is wrong and does not forgive you! Yes yes, my kind, gentle god who will cause you untold suffering for eternity for showing your love and disagreeing with me and blah bla[sub]h blah…[/sub] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I think I’ll bow out of this particular thread. Have fun. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/210 "2002-11-30T03:22:15Z")
I’m gone for 49 hours and this thread has 5 pages to it. Damn. But what I gots ter know is, a lot of you people obviously don’t like those characters, but what kept you from making a Pit thread so long? ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/211 "2002-11-30T03:32:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blackeyes \* > \*\*I’m gone for 49 hours and this thread has 5 pages to it. Damn. But what I gots ter know is, a lot of you people obviously don’t like those characters, but what kept you from making a Pit thread so long? \*\* I don’t think it is a personal thing, per sa, but how they can sit back and do what they do and then read the hypcrocy of their words and go “meh” is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/212 "2002-11-30T06:52:38Z")
Blackeyes: Maybe it was just Christian Charity. \ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/213 "2002-11-30T07:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*As it relates to me, I feel I’ve failed God because He hates divorce. \*\* But he’d of liked it if you stuck it out in a loveless and physically abusive marriage??? He’d of thought you hadn’t failed him if you remained a punching bag to an asshole? I hate to say it but either a) you have misunderstood what God does or doesn’t ‘hate’, or b) your God doesn’t doesn’t love you, only your blind obedience. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/214 "2002-11-30T09:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **Honestly, H4E, there is one command in my faith that I really do wrestle with:** - Some verses from the Doctrines and Covenants snipped\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > Now, some folks in my church think that only applies to disagreements between two members of the LDS church and a number of folks believe, as I do, that it’s a direct command to forgive everyone everything. > > You’ll notice that I’m not telling you to believe it; I’m not telling you to forgive everything. I’m saying that I think I should follow that bit of what I believe is scripture and I find myself failing to follow it on occasion. > > But, for giggles, let’s pretend it’s not scripture. Do you think it’s good advice for me to follow? I think it is and I think I’ll continue trying to follow it.\*\* (Underlining mine) So, does this mean you’re going to forgive **His4Ever** and **Joe Cool** and **Jersey Diamond**? 'Cause that would be really nice to see, and it might even set them a good example. Way to go, **gobear**. **Kirkland** , are you taking notes? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/215 "2002-11-30T14:27:51Z")
I suppose I think I intend to forgive them for all the lies they tell about my faith and other faiths once they get around to no longer telling them. I suppose I’ll forgive them for being hypocrites once I stop wrestling with the issue I brought up in those D&C verses. As I said, it’s something I think I should do but I backslide myself. What I don’t do is shriek at them to follow _my faith’s_ teachings. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/216 "2002-11-30T15:46:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*I had a freind years ago that discovered his wife had been married previously(she had never told him…first husband was abuseive). He and his wife were very devout Christians, so they talked about it, and after that point they were celibate from that day forward, because for her to have sex with him would be adultry(they stayed togeather). \*\* :eek: 😕 Good Lord! Talk about confusing the letter of the law with the intent! ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/217 "2002-11-30T16:09:22Z")
I’ve been told I don’t judge people enough on this board. I’m afraid that may be about to change. You see, I put divorce in the same category as abortion: _always_ wrong, but occaisionally necessary. Before I go any further, let me say unequivocally that I consider **His4Ever** ’s first divorce absolutely necessary, as necessary as pulling someone from a burning building. From what she said of her first husband and from what I know of abusive relationships, she stood a risk of being killed if she stayed. I would also like to have a few words with anyone who said she should have stayed in that marriage. I have two problems with divorce. The lesser one relates to the Biblical strictures already mentioned, and others can address those far better than I can. The main problem I have is, when two people marry, even in a secular environment, they swear vows to each other. When Christians do so in a religious setting, they also swear vows before God. Divorce breaks those vows. Also, marriage _is_ a choice. I mentioned a parallel to abortion earlier. Like abortion, I firmly believe that a person should take every possible step to make sure divorce never becomes a necessity. This includes getting as thorough a knowledge of the person you intend to marry as possible before you marry them, and, preferably, building a firm friendship as a foundation first. I understand how painful it can be to live single and celibate. I’m in my mid-30’s and I’ve never married. I was engaged, some years ago, and I was not celibate during my engagement, so I do know what I’m missing, and sometimes I miss it badly. I would still choose never to marry than to marry badly. Also, if I am fortunate enough to marry, you’d better believe I’ll let the gentleman know that I don’t believe in divorce except in the case of abuse, in which case he’ll be looking at jail time. I can, as some of you know, be rather fierce. Besides, hopefully he’ll enjoy discussing religion and ethics as much as I do. The point is, while it can be painful and lonely, one can manage to be single for years at a time. Also, having spent the past few days visiting loving friends and family, quite frankly it can be good to have some time to one’s self (excuse me while I breathe a sigh of relief!). My question for those of you who say that homosexuality is wrong but are divorced and remarried is “Don’t you see that you are denying others the pleasure and the sacrament that you have enjoyed multiple times?” Also, **His4Ever** , you have said that all sorts of people are sinners and condemned them. If I treated you by that same standard, how would you feel? A few weeks ago, when I was finally getting some people to acknowledge that all Christians were hateful, you went out of your way to condemn them and pour more gasoline on the flames. Your opinion wasn’t asked for in that thread. In fact, I prayed you’d stay out of it. Don’t you see that if I practiced my faith in your way and knew of you then what I’ve learned, I would be within my rights to blast you for your sinful lifestyle? I’m truly sorry you’re going through this, lass, and I wish your life had been better. Hang it, I also had a difficult to abusive relationship with my father, and I understand the desparate need to be loved. I was also a prime candidate for an abusive relationship when I was in my early 20’s, and I was aware of it, which is one reason I didn’t date much. It’s a harsh solution, I admit, but it still seems better than risking the alternative. You come across as believing that you don’t sin or that your sins are somehow more acceptable than those of Mormons, Catholics, or homosexuals. As I’ve said, we all sin, and I’m coming close to committing cruelty, one of the worst sins in my book, by writing this post. I’m also a lot more judgemental than I prefer to let on. When I first read about your marital history, I was reminded of the Samaritan woman at the well, to whom Christ said, “Woman, you’ve had 5 husbands.” Woman, you’ve had 3 husbands, yet, before I get to high and mighty, it was to that Samaritan woman that Christ first revealed Himself as Messiah. To switch to a different woman, I won’t throw the first stone. I’ve turned down a few people, and I’ve had lonely nights when I’ve regretted it. I’ve also burned with a very bright and searing flame. At the risk of TMI, there were nights when I was living in Waikiki when I was sorely tempted to find any presentable and willing fellow and find out what I was missing. The consequences weren’t worth it, and I’m glad I waited. Also, when I do find someone I want to marry and who wants to marry me, I can assure him it will be worth the wait, just don’t be surprised if I don’t post for a week or two! Excuse me. This has gone on way too long, as usual, but I thought it appropriate that a Christian who does consider divorce immoral, but not homosexuality chime in. Also, **gobear** , I can’t tell you how pleased and touched I was when I read your post yesterday. It’s an honor to share a board with you sir, and I find I’m regretting that you’re not straight. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/218 "2002-11-30T16:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*I suppose I think I intend to forgive them for all the lies they tell about my faith and other faiths once they get around to no longer telling them. I suppose I’ll forgive them for being hypocrites once I stop wrestling with the issue I brought up in those D&C verses. As I said, it’s something I think I should do but I backslide myself. What I don’t do is shriek at them to follow _my faith’s_ teachings. \*\* No, you just shriek at them to follow _their own faith’s_ teachings. 😉 Well, your privilege, I suppose. You strike me as a good and decent man, \*\*Monty/b], and I wish you well, both temporally and metaphysically. I really must keep in mind that the words that are posted do not _necessarily_ bespeak the levels of inner turmoil that they convey. Only you can assess what it costs you emotionally and spiritually to withhold forgiveness. I’m guessing the costs to those who don’t get your forgiveness are negligible. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/219 "2002-11-30T16:53:55Z")
kaylas: You’re obviously missing the point that all the while they’re going around shrieking at us to follow their faith’s teachings, they’re not bothering to follow those teachings themselves. The issue isn’t “Hey, you should’ve stayed married to that scum who beat on you.” The issue is: “Why are you running around condemning us LDS, the Catholics, and the Gays because, according to you, we and they don’t bother to follow that magic rulebook of yours, and yet you’re telling us right now that it’s okay for you not to bother following it.” Surely you can see the difference between that and what you just posted. Maybe a good analogy is they’re like a stock adviser who’s always broke. Come to think of it, that analogy is spot on. And, I’ve been telling H4E for a while now to learn more. cj: Nobody’s telling H4E to stay married in an abusive relationship. Well, nobody besides her rulebook that she’s been beating everyone _else_ upside the head with since she appeared here. What many of us are telling her is to consider the implications of her behaviour now that she knows how it feels. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/220 "2002-11-30T16:58:33Z")
Just reread kaylas’ posting. Nope, you probably didn’t miss the point, but it was sure buried there a bit! Rephrased a tad too. 😉 Honestly, I don’t care what faith she follows. What I do care about is all the lies she’s told here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=12)